Defensive Carry banner

1 - 20 of 36 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
508 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Here I am, now lost. My plans for gun purchases this year look to be out the window. I've been wanting a 10mm for a couple years now. Had made a decision on which model to get. Got the money ear marked for it.. Had plans to also pick up a second gun this spring, maybe a 45. Plans were for a 38 Super and maybe a 9mm this fall. With the way the current events are going, I'm not too sure this is the way to go right now.

I don't think I have any actual weak spots in my defensive armament. 4 handguns. Shotguns in the way of SxS in 410, 12, and 10. A pump in 12. Rifles in 32-20, 32 Win Special, 303 British, and 22LR. The only things I see wrong with this, is that other than the 22LR, I have no long guns that can accepted optics without modification. (Would you tap a 1952 Marlin 336 waffle top for a scope?) I have no long guns that are semi automatic.

My thoughts on this is that maybe I should pick up a rifle, such as perhaps an AR (or two), instead of picking up more handguns. The longest shot I would have to take where I live, if i absolutely, positively had to make one, was about 150-175 yards. I'd have to be standing out in the front yard, close to the street, to take that shot.

So, my options, as I can figure them;
1. Continue with my plans. Get a 10mm and possibly a 45.
2. Get a 10mm and an AR, with a scope/red dot
3. Get an AR-15 and an AR-10
4. Get an AR pistol of some version and an AR rifle.

Can't figure out any other options. If there are others, please feel free to let me know. What would you do?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,380 Posts
Depends on what you are wanting them for. The 10mm is not a defensive handgun IMHO (too much penetration) but makes a fabulous backcountry walking gun. So if you're interest was defensive for the 10mm, I would recommend you remove it from your list.

I would definitely consider an AR for defensive purposes and smaller game dual use but if you are thinking more harvesting meat I would consider stepping up to an optics bolt action platform. Depending on where you are, I would go no lower than a 22-250 or 243 all the way up to a 300 Win Mag. Whatever you get, shoot it ASAP and find a round that works and stock up on that round.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
963 Posts
I don’t see a practical reason why you’d be shooting beyond 50 yards for defensive purposes, let alone 175 yards.

A 10 mm is a great outdoor woods gun. It’s a bit much for self defense, too. But if it’s something you’d wanted for a while, you’re not getting younger so get it. I am assuming you’re referring to a semiauto, though there are revolvers that also feed it.

My friend and I were just having a discussion about long Guns with handgun applications. A 357 Magnum is no slouch, and out of a 16” rifle you can get Buffalo Bore ammunition that can achieve 2200 FPS (Ruger bolt action 357 Magnum/38). Paired with a Coonan 1911 357 Magnum, you have options, if you have large hands.

For 45 ACP velocities don’t go up much, even in 16” barrels. It tends to stay subsonic. I have an AR Pistol in 45 ACP which still suppresses, in a 7” barrel.

Because 45 ACP is such a heavy round in 230 gr, it has quite a bit of bullet drop beyond 50 yards. Despite that, I’d love an FN FNX 45 Tactical which has the highest capacity in a pistol, 15+1. With a red dot and suppressor, it is one of the most formidable 45 ACP pistols. It has a great trigger and feels great in the hand.

An AR Pistol in 5.56 mm would be another option for you. It wouldn’t be a precision gun, but even out to 200 yards, it would not be a slouch. It’s advantage is in close combat due to the lighter weight and maneuverability. It’s my personal choice. If you have a suppressor, a 300 AAC/Blackout would also be a great option.

With the relatively low prices of AR Pistols and rifles, you can get multiple without breaking the bank.

Bullpup rifles are another option, such as the Tavor. It can convert from 555m, to 300 AAC/Blackout or 9 mm. I know of another Bullpup that can convert from 6.5 Creedmoor to other calibers but the model escapes me. They are also more compact and easy to maneuver with. I have operated my Tavor 5.56 mm SAR with Timney Trigger one handed rather easily out to 50 yards. They even come in 308 Winchester, now.

I didn’t see what pistols you had, already, though.

These days ammunition has gotten sparse. You can always reload for practice or hunting rounds. I’d advise against reloads for self defense, though.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Instagram
Muzzleblast_MD
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,298 Posts
Honestly, and I know it’s not as much fun, but I’d take that money and spend it taking one of John Lovetts classes/ Warriorpoet
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,796 Posts
Hardware wise, there are only two rifles I would call upon if bad goes to worse: AR-15 and AR-10.

For all purpose defense with the AR-15, I'd look at a 16 inch barrel carbine (M4 type).

AR-10's work well with 16 inch barrels, but 18 gives a bit better long range performance.

For strictly inside the house, the AR pistols (in 9mm or 300 Blackout with barrels 8.5 inches or less)) are very maneuverable and offer high capacity.

For longer ranges and/or vehicle issues, the AR-10 is hard to beat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
508 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
To answer the question asked above, my handguns are i revolver in 38 special, 1 in 357 mag. 2 semiautomatics in 40.

I'm not sure I'm following the idea of using an AR for small game. I'd think that a shot from a 5.56mm or .223 would just about turn inside out a squirrel or rabbit, leaving not much of any useful meat.

ETA: one of the 45s I was considering is a Para-Ordnance P12-45, for sale here locally for $650.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,664 Posts
You're covered in the pistol department fairly well. The week spot IMO is long gun in popular calibers.

The AR platform allows easy transition to whatever your needs dictate.
I would suggest a basic AR15 in 556 to start with. Then maybe a hunting rifle In whatever platform you choose in a heavier caliber (308, 30-06, etc).

With the political climate and frequent "crisis" buying frenzies having options in popular calibers just makes sense to me.

just saw y your second post.
Adding a PCC in 357 or 40 might be another option to consider once you fill the gap in rifle caliber.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,107 Posts
I'm not sure I'm following the idea of using an AR for small game. I'd think that a shot from a 5.56mm or .223 would just about turn inside out a squirrel or rabbit, leaving not much of any useful meat.
An AR can take small game with head shots, no meat loss.

I'm also an advocate of the AR platform for defense. It's easy to use, and when using supersonic calibers provides significantly more wound damage than pistol rounds, even those fired from PCCs.

Inexpensive but reliable ARs are a good way to bulk up on team/family capabilities. Multiple people using the same platform makes training of people with limited gun experience a bit easier. For the cost of other guns it's often possible to buy two ARs.

If an AR isn't something you like, consider a lever gun in .30-30, or even .357. Very good terminal wounding, and nearly as fast to use as an AR. Doesn't have the same mag capacity, but side gates make topping off a quick process. Premium ammo (at a cost) for .357 can bring velocities in a carbine up to the low end of rifle cartridges, although that still generates less terminal wounding than a basic 150 gr .30-30. Used .30-30 levers might be priced okay. Henry also has a new X Lever gun in .357 that has a threaded barrel and under barrel rail to mount a light. Just some options to consider.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,357 Posts
Seems like you have everything you need and then some. That lever gun can reach out just fine. Wether you have everything you want only you can answer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Workaholic

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,561 Posts
My thoughts with 2020 election coming up + all this other crazy crazy stuff it is not ext the best time to be looking for a new gun imop price are way too high ..However that said my though

1. I would for now focus on stuff that would be on the ban list first worry about the rest after the election or when calm down more ..This is stuff like over 10 round semi auto handguns , semi auto rifles etc .
2. With that in mind I would say at min get a couple of completed lowers in both 556 and 308 that way if ban happens your covered
3. Me right now would get a 556 AR and glock 10mm ..Only due to mag size and max firepower
 
  • Like
Reactions: Workaholic

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,377 Posts
Bad time to start upping the arsenal with stocks down and prices up. But might be worse after the election.
Got a guy I work with who was desperate for an AR-15. Found one from a friend of his friend and bought it.
Windham Weaponry. Cheap no name sight and a vertical foregrip for $975.00.
He asked me to check it out during my lunch hour today.
Looks like it was submerged in water for a week and put up wet in a rifle case.
Barrel rust and rust in other places. A real turd. I felt so sorry for him.
Desperation and ignorance can be costly.
That is why I am so blessed to have y'all to talk to before I make any costly mistakes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,482 Posts
With the 10mm and 38 Super on your list, what's not to get excited about. However, everybody "needs" an AR in their arsenal IMO. You might even consider an AR pistol with a 10.5" barrel, quality brace and a red dot. They are easy to maneuver in close quarters, and you'd be surprised how accurate they are out to 100 yds and beyond. But as others noted though, it really depends on your individual wants and needs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,857 Posts
1. Pick the role for the gun. What are you trying to do?

2. See what is available...the gun, the ammo, and accessories.

Unfortunately, right now it’s more “what can you get at a reasonable cost,” and less “what do you want.”

You may want to invest in shotgun ammo, and skip everything else. Shotguns are called riot guns for a reason. Skip shooting buckshot in front of a mob has a way of scattering them PDQ.

Just remember that, at some point, there will be a legal reckoning for any shot you take.
 

·
Registered
Various
Joined
·
15,552 Posts
Currently, AR-15s and AR-10s plus ammo for them are in short supply raising prices. Lever-action rifles and bolt-action rifles are plentiful and relatively inexpensive until the fall when people buy them for hunting. A bolt-action rifle in .308 or .30-06 would be good for hunting or longer range shots.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
815 Posts
Here I am, now lost. My plans for gun purchases this year look to be out the window. I've been wanting a 10mm for a couple years now. Had made a decision on which model to get. Got the money ear marked for it.. Had plans to also pick up a second gun this spring, maybe a 45. Plans were for a 38 Super and maybe a 9mm this fall. With the way the current events are going, I'm not too sure this is the way to go right now.



I don't think I have any actual weak spots in my defensive armament. 4 handguns. Shotguns in the way of SxS in 410, 12, and 10. A pump in 12. Rifles in 32-20, 32 Win Special, 303 British, and 22LR. The only things I see wrong with this, is that other than the 22LR, I have no long guns that can accepted optics without modification. (Would you tap a 1952 Marlin 336 waffle top for a scope?) I have no long guns that are semi automatic.

My thoughts on this is that maybe I should pick up a rifle, such as perhaps an AR (or two), instead of picking up more handguns. The longest shot I would have to take where I live, if i absolutely, positively had to make one, was about 150-175 yards. I'd have to be standing out in the front yard, close to the street, to take that shot.

So, my options, as I can figure them;
1. Continue with my plans. Get a 10mm and possibly a 45.
2. Get a 10mm and an AR, with a scope/red dot
3. Get an AR-15 and an AR-10
4. Get an AR pistol of some version and an AR rifle.

Can't figure out any other options. If there are others, please feel free to let me know. What would you do?
Go with #2. Get the pistol you really want and a good quality AR 15 with a good 1-4 or 6x scope. I have a Vortex Crossfire 1-4X, the optics are good and clear. It also has a Red Dot feature within it, that I don't think is that valuable. I can also add a Red Dot on an angle Mount. I picked up a SIG and I really like it. Was a very good price, under $800.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,489 Posts
If I were looking for guns that would simply be effective self defense tools and a great buy in case of any legislation, Id just buy Glocks in 9mm and ARs in 5.56mm, and stack a bunch of mags for each. A simple, quality red dot on the rifle would get you squared away for optics.

Sure, other guns are awesome to have, and I have a few "fun" guns myself, like an Enfield, a S&W Model 10, Walther PPK/S, etc. Could they be pressed into defensive service? Sure. Are they optimal? Of course not.

Its hard to believe every 2A loving American doesnt have at least a single "game time" AR that is a quality rifle, has all quality parts, is loaded, and zeroed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
508 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Thank you for all the replies so far. They are greatly appreciated. If I decide to pick up an AR-15 in anything other than 6.5 Grendal, it would be as an MPR. If I got an AR-10, it would be for further reach, although I cannot see a time where I might have to go out much further than 4-500 yards for anything. I have years of experience handling and firing an AR.

With 3 exceptions, all my guns are tools. Alot of them have sentimental value, but, they are tools nonetheless. If push comes to shove, I can even use 2 of the 3 exceptions. Ammo is a bit more expensive and harder to come by, without reloading, for them.

Any additional guns I buy, for the most part, are wants, not needs. Handguns for self defense and carry. Yes, even the 10mm. LimaCharlie is my hero there. Rifles will be for hunting and self defense.

Over the past month, as I have continued to contemplate the current situation, I have come to realize that bugging in is best option for me and my family, should things get ugly. And, honestly, I wouldn't be able to leave my 90+ year old WWII vet neighbor stuck in that type of thing. Not in good conscience.

The fact of the matter is, I'm a Midwestern farm boy, and despite my years of service, I never thought I might need an AR. Current events has me second guessing that assumption.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
508 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Depends on what you are wanting them for. The 10mm is not a defensive handgun IMHO (too much penetration) but makes a fabulous backcountry walking gun. So if you're interest was defensive for the 10mm, I would recommend you remove it from your list.

I would definitely consider an AR for defensive purposes and smaller game dual use but if you are thinking more harvesting meat I would consider stepping up to an optics bolt action platform. Depending on where you are, I would go no lower than a 22-250 or 243 all the way up to a 300 Win Mag. Whatever you get, shoot it ASAP and find a round that works and stock up on that round.
I am i Kansas,, the biggest things we have here are elk. The bolt action 303 and lever action 32 Win Special will easily harvest meat out to 300 yards on deer, and out to 150 or so on elk. The 22 and the 32-20 will easily handle small game, with the 32-20 being enough to go up to the size of a large coyote.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
508 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
I don’t see a practical reason why you’d be shooting beyond 50 yards for defensive purposes, let alone 175 yards.

A 10 mm is a great outdoor woods gun. It’s a bit much for self defense, too. But if it’s something you’d wanted for a while, you’re not getting younger so get it. I am assuming you’re referring to a semiauto, though there are revolvers that also feed it.

My friend and I were just having a discussion about long Guns with handgun applications. A 357 Magnum is no slouch, and out of a 16” rifle you can get Buffalo Bore ammunition that can achieve 2200 FPS (Ruger bolt action 357 Magnum/38). Paired with a Coonan 1911 357 Magnum, you have options, if you have large hands.

For 45 ACP velocities don’t go up much, even in 16” barrels. It tends to stay subsonic. I have an AR Pistol in 45 ACP which still suppresses, in a 7” barrel.

Because 45 ACP is such a heavy round in 230 gr, it has quite a bit of bullet drop beyond 50 yards. Despite that, I’d love an FN FNX 45 Tactical which has the highest capacity in a pistol, 15+1. With a red dot and suppressor, it is one of the most formidable 45 ACP pistols. It has a great trigger and feels great in the hand.

An AR Pistol in 5.56 mm would be another option for you. It wouldn’t be a precision gun, but even out to 200 yards, it would not be a slouch. It’s advantage is in close combat due to the lighter weight and maneuverability. It’s my personal choice. If you have a suppressor, a 300 AAC/Blackout would also be a great option.

With the relatively low prices of AR Pistols and rifles, you can get multiple without breaking the bank.

Bullpup rifles are another option, such as the Tavor. It can convert from 555m, to 300 AAC/Blackout or 9 mm. I know of another Bullpup that can convert from 6.5 Creedmoor to other calibers but the model escapes me. They are also more compact and easy to maneuver with. I have operated my Tavor 5.56 mm SAR with Timney Trigger one handed rather easily out to 50 yards. They even come in 308 Winchester, now.

I didn’t see what pistols you had, already, though.

These days ammunition has gotten sparse. You can always reload for practice or hunting rounds. I’d advise against reloads for self defense, though.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Instagram
Muzzleblast_MD
An AR pistol is definitely a thought, although caliber for something like that is undecided. I was considering a build of one in 40 s&w, since I already reload for it. A lever in 357 would be a nice match for the two revolvers. But with a pump in 32-20, which would be hitting 15-1700 fps, and a lever in 32 Win Special, im honestly not sure what that could do for me, other than give me a lever I can put a scope on if needed. Bullpups are unfortunately out of my price range. If for example I got the keltec bullpen, it would suck up about half of what I have to work with.
 
1 - 20 of 36 Posts
Top