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I'm not convinced that a lifetime permit is a good thing just yet.
I think a periodic check on a holder's firearms proficiency, training/updates on state laws (that can change at least every two years) would need to be in place.
Then the system would have to be able to control permit holders that have commited some sort of offense preventing them from carrying (hopefully thats in place now for the renewable permits).
I know the percentage of permit holders that commit these types of offenses is very small, but it is something to consider.
 

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Indiana doesn't require training courses, qualification, etc. You simply get fingerprinted & undergo the background check. The only down-side is that some states (namely Ohio) won't recognize your permit.
 

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I would expect, even with a lifetime permit, that just like with fixed-term issues - if the holder transgresses then it will show up on ''the system'' and they will be caught out anyways.

As for state laws etc - in truth it is the responsibility of us all to stay updated on those deals IMO.
 

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I would hope that everyone would keep up with changes to state laws but I'm afraid that just doesn't happen often enough

....too bad we can't go back to the old west days where people weren't freaked out at the sight of a gun and almost everyone carried a gun without having to pay the gov't to do it
 

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P95Carry said:
I would expect, even with a lifetime permit, that just like with fixed-term issues - if the holder transgresses then it will show up on ''the system'' and they will be caught out anyways.

As for state laws etc - in truth it is the responsibility of us all to stay updated on those deals IMO.
+1

The other kicker to it is you can't "ungrade" until 180 days prior to your current permit expiring. I have to wait until Nov of '08 to apply for my lifetime:frown: :frown:

Of course, truth be told, we shouldn't even HAVE to have 'permits':banana:
 

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64zebra said:
I would hope that everyone would keep up with changes to state laws but I'm afraid that just doesn't happen often enough

....too bad we can't go back to the old west days where people weren't freaked out at the sight of a gun and almost everyone carried a gun without having to pay the gov't to do it
First you say people should be required to renew so they can keep up their training and knowledge of the laws, then you say it should be like the old west where anybody could strap on a gun without needing a license.

You won't get this country back to the old west carry style in one big jump. We have to take it in baby steps. Going from a license that's good for a few years at a time to a license that's good for a lifetime is a good step in that direction.
 

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no,
I didn't say they should be required to renew necessarily,
I said they should have a periodic check, we could have lifetime permits and still have checks performed, in other words no fee every 4 years to the state like here in texas but still have a take a test on the laws. This will help our cause by having people tested on knowing the laws.
This will help ensure that CHL holders know the laws and the anti-chl legislatures might go along with it.
However, I think it will all come down to money. I think if the state sees that they will not bring in as much money with lifetime vs 4 year renewables over the same time period it will not happen.


and yeah, it would be nice to go back to the old west, but thats not gonna happen these days with the all the anti-2A, anti-CHLs, and :sheep: in our society

...and Welcome to Combat Carry Texas Patriot
 

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I have to disagree, if we just go along with periodic testing and don't fight it, we are reaffirming their belief the 2nd. is a Govt. privilege (like driving) and not a right. Nothing we do will ever appease the anti's, it never has yet.
 

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OD I fully agree with your comment above. I do believe however that Indiana does need to update the look and design of our permits. Right now they are just a pink peice of paper. I believe that they should be like a DL and have pictures of the owner.
 

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We pretty much agree sir, I wish CCW was an endorsement on our DLs, like MC.
I have my pinky laminated. :wink:
 

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An endoresment would be awsome. Coming from an LEO background everytime I come in contact with someone I am always wondering if they have a permit or are armed. (not everyone is honest) If when we run there DL for a status check then we would know each and every time.
 

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OD said:
I have to disagree, if we just go along with periodic testing and don't fight it, we are reaffirming their belief the 2nd. is a Govt. privilege (like driving) and not a right. Nothing we do will ever appease the anti's, it never has yet.

I understand what you're saying, believe me I do, but I'm talking about a realistic approach to a state legislature, not what all of us think and hold dearly to our hearts. I'm referring to what it would take little by little to get things our way.
It will take a step by step process in most cases and I don't see most just going to lifetime permits all of a sudden.
 

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I understand what you're saying sir.

Personally, I think working towards lifetime permits is moving in the wrong direction, we should be putting our energies into convincing these morons the 2nd Amendment means exactly what it says. We should work toward no permits to carry, Alaska did it recently.
 

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glocksmygun said:
An endoresment would be awsome. Coming from an LEO background everytime I come in contact with someone I am always wondering if they have a permit or are armed. (not everyone is honest) If when we run there DL for a status check then we would know each and every time.
I must disagree. The Indiana BMV can't get their computers to work or process people in a timely manner - why would I trust them with my endorsement? They are the absolute worst government organization in Indiana. Period. And, an increasingly complex license is going to only raise permit costs.

This also only lends itself to the vilification and increased suspicion of valid permit holders when they otherwise wouldn't be treated any differently. (From my vantage point, this is somewhat like how NY puts your permit on your criminal record.)
 

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The Indiana BMV can't get their computers to work or process people in a timely manner
That maybe the case at your branch, I recently titled, plated, etc., a new vehicle at the Auburn branch, it took 8 minutes.
 

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Yet again I have to agree with OD. I just renewed my plates in Anderson of all places and had no problem. It all depends on what time of day you go. If you look at endoresments from a LEO point of view it is all about safety to them and you not about if you are a criminal or not. If a LEO is talking to someone and the officer sees a gun or they go for something in their pocket and they see a gun there is a good chance of the subject getting a gun pulled on them depending on the officer. I know of a couple different officers that are more than happy to pull a gun on someone when ever they get a chance. (which I do not agree with).
 

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What state do you guys live in?

The BMV just got through firing a bunch of idiots for mismanagement in the past few years. Remember all the branches that were closed down to streamline their bloated operations? And, every branch in the state was down last week for a day when they upgraded their computer systems.

Now, I certainly think they are improving but there is a ways to go.

BTW - The vast majority of permit holders happily let LEO's know they are carrying.

How does information about how law-abiding a citizen is along side a rap sheet help? So, they pull up a permit holder's CLEAN rap sheet AND see that he also underwent a fingerprinted, police-run background check for a month? If the LEO wasn't worried when they saw the clean rap sheet, are they then going to be worried that the citizen also underwent an extensive, finger-printed background check as well?

That's almost like being concerned when you pull over another LEO / FBI agent, etc.

I'm sorry, but the whole premise (identifying individuals who may shoot you) to having a CCW flag is logically flawed. That money would be better spent on something that would actually identify criminals.
 

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I've had an Indiana permit going on 15 years now. Any time there is a reason to pull me over(drunk checkpoint, possible vechile match, etc.) I have stated that I am armed and have a permit. Never once has any state, city, or sheriffs officer ever been nervous with my actions.

I take my hands off the wheel when they ask me to present my Identification(most times they are completely cool with just send me OMW after I tell them I have one (although there was one time in Michigan but that's another story).

Personally I understand that a 2nd amendment right should not require a permit but just having one and the ability to present it to a LEO is 90% of the reason they don't freak out.

As for a lifetime permit I would be glad for it. If you are criminally convicted you have to surrender your permit anyway. If you don't that's another crime (and they do check when they need to). The only thing the I'm worried about is the price.

The state is $15 and county varies but is usually around $20. If a Life time permit is say $500 or $1000 that would bar most people from getting one. Who's to say 5-10 years down the road they decide that they really wanted more money and repeal the D*** thing?

look at Mitch Daniels selling off highways for short term gain. Sure we get money now but no matter how you look at it the state looses money (a great deal of $$) in the long run.
 
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