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Discussion Starter #1
From Bud's thread...

Due to extenuating circumstances I won't bore the forum with, I got an early look at one of my Christmas toys. Don't worry I'll act surprised.

I don't have the capability to post digital photos right now, but here's some links if you need a visual.

A review/picture.

This is the importer's page for it.

I will in fact have a GP WASR-10.

At first I saw WASR-10 stamped on the receiver and my heart sank, but I started looking at it and suddenly started to feel a lot better. That "GP" prefix makes a world of difference.

I have to admit not having fired it yet, there's not a lot I can really say about it for sure but I do have some superficial observations to make here:

-This is probably a step down in quality from the SAR1, but you know what I can't really find SAR-1s too often any more, not at a reasonable price. The last one I saw for sale was $600. I kid thee not.

-I like its imitation of the original AK47's look. This particular model is in no means unique in that regard, I just wanted to say that.

-The sights do not suffer from the infamous slant. It looks like I will have to take my sight adjustment tool to the front sight post, but nothing bad.

-There is this weird thing that's supposed to be some sort of muzzle break on the end of the barrel. There's no way that's a Romanian part. On the plus side however, the barrel is threaded and this thing comes off. I don't know what you'd really want to hang on the end of an AK47 barrel, but the fact I have a threaded barrel compels me to wonder what I can screw onto it.

-The bore is chromed. That is a big plus.

-Bayonet lug is intact and not ground off. However I've never seen an AK47 bayonet in decent enough condition to be actually used but to be fair I was never looking for one either. I suppose you could slide one on and laugh at it or take a picture.

-Furniture is surprisingly good. It's not a beautiful walnut Marlin stock by any stretch of the imagination, but it's not pitted. Slightly better quality of wood than I was expecting, and it is fit well. It'd be such a pain in the butt to replace it I think I'll keep it. It actually looks okay. Not purty, but okay.

-Machine marks are abundant. You can tell it's Romanian workmanship. However the design seems true to the original and it seems simple and sturdy like an AK type rifle should be. It looks sort of crappy but an AK47 ain't gonna win no beauty contests.

-Side mount for optic bases, etc. Once again my mind wonders what I could put on this. I don't really know what kind of optic system would really be worth considering for an AK47.

-Bad: The mag well is typical of the WASR series in that it lacks the dimples we all desire. However, I played with it and it accepts the double stack magazines well enough. I looked at it under a flashlight and I've seen much rougher work on the earlier WASRs and even some of the Mak90s I've encountered. The bad part is that it's a little awkward to switch magazines in a hurry, and you can easily load the magazine in where it'll stay in the well, but it won't actually be in a position to feed. The good part is that I don't think any filework will be necessary and there's no rough edges, plus if you do put it in wrong, you can't pull the bolt back.

Okay so a quick magazine change seems out of the question, but honestly isn't the whole point of the 30 round magazine that you don't have to switch magazines?

-Good/Mixed - I personally like this, but it may tick off some purists. In a likely effort to be 922r compliant, the fire control group is a G2 unit from Tapco. I personally am happy with that, as that should greatly reduce trigger slap if it doesn't eliminate it altogether. The Tapco triggers also break cleaner more often than not.

-The pistol grip is not the same wooden furniture, but rather the Tapco pistol grip. I can live with that, it's probably necessary to make it U.S. legal. It would be nice if the grip matched the rest of the furniture but oh well.

-The gas piston is a Tapco part too. Probably for compliance. Could personally care less.

-The safety on mine functions pretty smoothly for an AK47 clone. I can actually move it with my thumb. Two other Romanian AK owners that I've encountered have safeties that are so stiff their owners shift them into fire with a hammer or pliers and never move them.

-My gut tells me that it will probably feed and fire like a champ.

-Stamped receiver in case there was any doubt. I personally just do not care on AK47s if it's stamped or milled.

It's definitely not the top of the AK market, however, at its purported price point of $450 and less, I think it represents what the AK47 platform is all about. I have seen much, much worse specimens.

This is definitely a big step up from the other WASR marked imports I have seen in quality, finish, and just overall. I think the Tapco parts are a good effort to make the best of a bad situation requiring so many U.S. made parts.

I think this will be quite adequate for my AK needs and would be for most people's. I like it because it seems as if it would be just fine how it is, but you could easily make it look nice by getting some aftermarket furniture or sanding and refinishing the wood already on it, and refinishing the receiver/barrel with an aftermarket coating.

I would like to figure out a light mount on it, and might even consider an optic down the road. AK47 sights leave something to be desired.
 

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Nice review...thanks....I need to add an AKM and AK-74 clones to my collection...my sole AK so far is a Saiga-12 .12 Gauge shotgun.
 

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The slant brake on the threads is a standard AK feature. It's of dubious effectiveness, and not a flash hider by any means - I'm still wondering why they came in without them during the ban myself as they never were a prohibited feature. The threading underneath was, but well, they could have silver soldered the brakes on.

Also, the main weakness of the WASR in magazine acceptance is drums. About 50% of the ones I've sold through the store don't accept unmodified drums. I'm sure it's a 10 minute file + dremel job, but the ease of mag insertion/removal isn't quite as pleasant as a more expensive modle. Again, probably 10 minutes if you desire to fix it.

As far as what scope, red dot or low-magnification combat optic. It's not a sniper weapon, but the rail does have a purpose in that it will hold a variety of lower-end scopes and dots suitable for the task at hand.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
It sounds like I'm in luck then because the only thing I want for it are steel 30 round magazines.

I am toying with the idea of a low power fixed power scope/red dot in the future, and a mount that comes right off so I can preserve the commie goodness. I think anything else would be completely wasted on it. A 3-9x40 is way too much methinks.
 

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Whatever you do on the mounts, don't buy the aluminum ones held in place by allen wrenches. Junk, junk, junk - and junk I almost had to dremel off to remove.

Get the Belarus or Russian manufactured mounts.
 

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Robert - what is your recommendation, at sensible cost - for easy-fit mounts for AK's generally?
 

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Euclidean,

Congrats on the Christmas gift - you must have indeed been a "good boy".

AK's are wonderfully fun and reliable firearms. I have a drum for mine - but for no other reason than "I can". It is too heavy - and noisy for anything other than being a "bullet hose" on static range.

I personally like the stamped reciever the best - it is the lightest - making it the easier to carry and manuever with.

There are some decent red-dot type scopes available for it - I like the red dots for AK especially - cause they sure are not capable of the kind of accuracy a "powered" scope might offer. I have a "KOBRA" red dot - which is the "AK version" of the EOTech. It is alot less money than an EOTech - but it is "cruder" than the EOTech too - so it is perfect for the AK. The KOBRA is an actualy mil spec red dot for some Russian units - so it is durable enough to be tool - but not so expensive as "U.S." tools seem to be.

Enjoy your AK - and post pics of it after Christmas morning!

cheers

tire iron
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Would the $40 Mount that CDNN sales, which is reportedly of Russian manufacture, be an example of a good mount?

I think I know of the junky mounts of which you speak... seen some at gunshows which were supposed to be "quick" mounts but looked too flimsy to realistically hold any sort of zero.

Drums are fun but I've never encountered a drum for a commie gun that was worth what the dealer wanted for it.
 

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Yeah - that would be a "good" mount. Be advised though - if you mount a scope on that mount - it will require that you lift your head quite a distance up from the stock. You will in no way have a "cheek" or "stock" weld.

There really is no "good" way (that is inexpensive) to mount a scope on an AK.

The cheap ways always have draw-backs. Raising one's head way above the stock to look through the scope is no fun. But it can be done "on the cheap". That mount at CDNN and a $40 scope puts you into the $80-100 range - the drawback being it is not so comfortable to shoot that way.

If this is strictly a "fun" gun - and one that you will never use as a HD or any other "real" purpose - that route is a OK way one to take.

If you do plan on using the AK as "tool" - then by all means - take the scope off of it when it comes to filling that role and use the AK "factory stock" - as the "handgun" type sights work fine in that role with having to try and "find the scope".

Hope this helps,

cheers

tire iron
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Well my understanding is there's basically three ways to mount an optic on an AK47 clone:

#1. The side mount, for which I am personally not aware of a low profile mount. Such a mount may exist but I am not aware of it.

#2. Mounts that replace the receiver cover like they make for the SKS. However this is not a good point on the rifle to mount an optic for obvious reasons if you think about it a minute.

#3. An expensive rail like Ultimak or some other outfit might make which mounts where the rear sight mounts. or else requires some kind of drilling and tapping.

I'm sure there's others but these are the only ones I am personally aware of.

#2 is easy but it also sucks, so I'll skip that.

#3 would be worth it if you were being serious about your AK clone, like you had a good import or maybe a VEPR or an Arsenal or whatever.

#1 is what I'll go with because it's actually functional even if it's not really the best solution for serious use. What's funny is I say that and yet I understand that on the few occassions the Russians actually did mount any sort of optic to this rifle this is how it was done.

I have heard of people mounting traditional scopes on AKs, SKSes, etc. However on an AK, to me personally, that seems pointless unless you actually are using it to hunt. I think a more useful sight for just messing around, showing off, or heck maybe even 3 gun competition, would be something that speeds up target acquisition.

My thinking is, the KOBRA red dot sight would be ideal if you were serious. If you actually wanted to use the sight for social work, that'd be the one you needed.

I've also heard of people mounting expensive Holosights on AK47s. Once again, if you were serious, I could see that.

I'm thinking though if you just wanted to play around, a low end to middle of the road red dot sight would probably actually work the best. I'd think you want something that helped you get a faster sight picture than just the iron sights.

I had thought also that perhaps a low power fixed scope could be useful. Use the scope when you're making a longer shoot, use the iron sights for closer shots, etc. Due to the positioning that the side mount puts the scope in, and the fact that it's difficult to really line your eye up to the optic without a cheekpiece, a long eye relief scope could be the ticket because you use those with both eyes open about 11" back from the reticle.

Dang it I'm going to have to try this now.
 

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You guys mention cheek pieces and such - heck before I put a red dot on mine the gun was feeling so short and awkward when I tried to sight with irons - my face was way too tight on the comb for comfort.

So I actually like to raise the sight line and have no cheek contact!
 

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Euc, welcome to club.:urlaub2:

Allow me to introduce my own GP, not a good pic but WTH.


I got this baby for $330 (all fees included) and I have been very happy with it. And yes, the bayonet is there for fun (sent it to all my "anti" friends.) When you finally get to play with yours, you will indeed see that will need some minor finish work. First thing I did was to get the furniture out, bought a pistol grip fore, strip the awful finish it came with and redo it to my liking. I darkened and soaked it silly with tung oil and wax it. might not be the most "tactical" finish, but I like the feel of wood that way. The Other work I did was to polish the trigger group with a dremmel-type tool (amazing difference), installed a recoil buffer, rail and a cheap-butt red dot optic.
Tack drive is not, but it is a fun gun to shoot and it came in handy one power-less night after Katrina left our neighborhood in the dark.

The great thing about AK's is that most of the accesories for it are not expensive at all and some are downright cheap. 30 round mag prices vary depending on material and where they were built but I just bought 2 at a gun show for $10 a piece, country of origin unknown. You will usually find then in te internet for $12 and up.



PS: wait till you get to bump-fire it.:haha:
 

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P95Carry said:
Robert - what is your recommendation, at sensible cost - for easy-fit mounts for AK's generally?
If there's a siderail, the usual Russian-style with clamp work well. CDNN and elsewhere has them - but I *always* ask if it's got a clamp-type release or requires allen wrenches. If it takes tools, I run.

If you have a MAK-90 or something without a siderail, it's a crap shoot. I've seen top covers that work, seen the gas tube rail work, etc. - and seen as many examples that don't.
 

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#1. The side mount, for which I am personally not aware of a low profile mount. Such a mount may exist but I am not aware of it.
There is, but it does involve allen screws. You do have enough space to remove the cover and do an almost normal cleaning.

I have a second generation installed in mine. No complains.

This one is the Third generation with a side rail for lights. $29 at Cheaperthandirt.com


My thinking is, the KOBRA red dot sight would be ideal if you were serious. If you actually wanted to use the sight for social work, that'd be the one you needed.
It is a beautiful and rugged system. But costing almost as much as the rifle itself? Ouch!
 

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Some other thoughts about AK and variants.

The AK is an inexpensive reliable long gun. Those who are fans and aleardy own AR's or FAL's or Styers are not going to suddenly change their minds, sell their babies and run to get a WASR. However, those who want a long gun for house defense and cannot afford a thousand bucks or more to get one of the models above, cannot go wrong buying an AK. The idea is to have something to use NOW. Think in terms of an old Jeep (AK) and a Hummer (AR and such), yes, it would be nice to have the Hummer to go offroading in style, but the old jeep will take you there too.

Also, the AK is easy as hell to clean and maintain. Ammo is cheap and in 7,62, lethal. Anybody with some very basic mechanical skills can take the AK apart, mess with it and put it back together without troubles. Aftermarket parts are available and economical in most cases and some cool furniture is out there if you want to spruce the look of your AK.
 
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