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Discussion Starter #1
I was wondering what the penalties are for insubordination in the police department, if you're given an order by a superior and you refuse to obey it. From what I know about insubordination in the Army the penalty could be a court martial or in some cases execution. So Im wondering in the police department what the penalties would be.
 

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I'm sure the limits are unpaid leave or fired.
 

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Well in my case I was terminated. Three months paid leave while a go nowhere investigation took place. The Sheriff who fired me was eventually convicted of taking cartel dinero.
Rabbit, dear friend, we would love to hear a more complete version of this story.

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There's got to be an interesting story to be told there Rabbit12. I hope you'll post up.
Oh it’s a crazy story for sure. My degrees are in Police Administration and psychology and after this incident the wife pretty much said “choose” so today I work for a dairy company.
 

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Well if it is an illegal order, it is my understanding that you are under no obligation to obey it. Virtually all oaths of service are to the U.S. Constitution and in the case of police also to their state's constitution.

Please correct me if I am wrong here.

This past Saturday was medication turn in day at a local medical facility. When we arrived , there were several county police and a few state police present. I took the opportunity to ask a county officer what his department would do should they receive an edict or executive order directing them to begin the process of confiscating certain firearms. He told me that this had been discussed at a very recent meeting where he was present and he assured me that the Chief of Police had no intention of going door to door to round up private citizens' arms. He also said that the chief was very much in favor of citizens being armed. Hope he's right about this.
 

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Being employed by a law enforcement agency is no different than any other civilian occupation, although there are frequently civil service rules or union procedures in place. Basically, disciplinary actions are limited to suspension (with or without pay), maybe a reduction in rank, perhaps a period of probationary employment, or outright termination.

No matter how much I might have wanted to do so in a couple of cases, I knew I couldn't get away with taking Bozo out back and shooting him through the head. I had to fill out a disciplinary report, conduct an employee counselling session, allow Bozo to respond as he felt best, then deal with the lawyer's demands.
 

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Execution seems over the top.

Never been a cop, but many people when told to do something they don't want to do just slow roll it and never get it done. Hope the boss forgets what he wanted done or moves on to something else.
The US military, as defined by the Uniform Code of Military Justice, imposes the death penalty very rarely during peace time. During wartime, especially in direct combat, it has been used more but still sparingly. The following is a summary.

Most of the time insubordination will get you push ups, extra duty or other informal punishment. I more serious cases an article 15 hearing that can impose penalties like loss of pay, reduction in rank, extra duty. This can often be a precursor to a less than honorable discharge.

Courts martial are a small percentage of military discipline. Insubordination is not per se a crime punishable by death. But you can infer it as a component of more serious violations of the UCMJ.

Currently, under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, 14 offenses are punishable by death. Under the following sections of the UCMJ, the death penalty can be imposed at any time:

94 – Mutiny or sedition
99 – Misbehavior before the enemy
100 – Subordinate compelling surrender
101 – Improper use of countersign
102 – Forcing a safeguard
104 – Aiding the enemy
106a – Espionage
110 – Improper hazarding of vessel
118 – Murder
120 – Rape
Another four provisions of the UCMJ carry a death sentence only if the crime is committed during times of war:

85 – Desertion
90 – Assaulting or willfully disobeying a superior commissioned officer
106 – Lurking as a spy or acting as a spy
113 – Misbehavior of a sentinel or lookout
 

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One thing I do know is if a LEO does something against the law and lies to people most likely nothing will happen to them. Just my experience.

I would assume that a LEO that actually does what he supposed to do and refuses to do something unethical or illegal will most likely be reprimanded. Funny how that works.
 

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In the agency I worked for insubordination subjected you to command discipline which could range from a written reprimand to termination depending on the circumstances. I had (2) that worked for me that were terminated. One refused to be transferred to another platoon the other refused a call-in during a hurricane. Neither was appealed by the union (Teamsters) FWIW.
 

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Insubordination will likely be handled directly dependent upon the town council/mayor/government official in charge. Military insubordination will not be subject to civilian interference.
 
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340436
 

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As has been said in a few postings, everything from a written reprimand, suspension/loss of pay reduction in rank, to outright termination. The termination usually took some doing .

Bringing charges against a coworker is a slippery slope, the good old boys club is a large club.
 

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Unless it is an illegal order it could result in reprimand, suspension or termination. It just depends on the totality of the circumstances and the offenders previous disciplinary record.
 
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Oh it’s a crazy story for sure. My degrees are in Police Administration and psychology and after this incident the wife pretty much said “choose” so today I work for a dairy company.
If I were a screen writer, I'd start writing a movie:

The Dairyman

It would start out with close up of a milk jug in the south Texas desert. A horned lizard runs in front of the jug, stops, then runs off. Then, "BOOM"!, the jug explodes in slow motion, and you see the bullet exiting out of the disintegrating jug and a cloud of aerosolized milk.

Man, that title and opening combo is so good the movie can write itself.

Who would you pick to star as you?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Execution seems over the top.

Never been a cop, but many people when told to do something they don't want to do just slow roll it and never get it done. Hope the boss forgets what he wanted done or moves on to something else.
Well I've never heard of the police department executing anybody for insubordination but in the Army if you're ordered to charge into battle and you run the other way you will be shot by your own troops. Desertion from the front line can mean the firing squad.
 

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If I were a screen writer, I'd start writing a movie:

The Dairyman

It would start out with close up of a milk jug in the south Texas desert. A horned lizard runs in front of the jug, stops, then runs off. Then, "BOOM"!, the jug explodes in slow motion, and you see the bullet exiting out of the disintegrating jug and a cloud of aerosolized milk.

Man, that title and opening combo is so good the movie can write itself.

Who would you pick to star as you?
Is The Duke still making movies??
If not well Antonio Banderas might do, handsome enough and you know that milkman reputation 😏
 
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