[Ridgerunner]

Here's an interesting FBI article regarding the effectiveness of shots and ammunition.

One Shot Drops: Surviving the Myth

 

[APachon]

great read. This troubles me

Actual Shootings
In the authors’ ongoing study of violence against law enforcement officers, they have examined several cases where officers used large-caliber hand guns with limited effect displayed by the offenders. In one case, the subject attacked the officer with a knife. The officer shot the individual four times in the chest; then, his weapon malfunctioned. The offender continued to walk toward the officer. After the officer cleared his weapon, he fired again and struck the subject in the chest. Only then did the offender drop the knife. This individual was hit five times with 230-grain, .45-caliber hollow-point ammunition and never fell to the ground. The offender later stated, “The wounds felt like bee stings.”

Can someone explain this to me, I shoot 230gr .45!!!

In another case, officers fired six .40-caliber, hollow-point rounds at a subject who pointed a gun at them. Each of the six rounds hit the individual with no visible effect. The seventh round severed his spinal cord, and the offender fell to the ground, dropping his weapon. This entire firefight was captured by several officers’ in-car video cameras.

In a final case, the subject shot the victim officer in the chest with a handgun and fled. The officer, wearing a bullet-resistant vest, returned gunfire. The officer’s partner observed the incident and also fired at the offender. Subsequent investigation determined that the individual was hit 13 times and, yet, ran several blocks to a gang member’s house. He later said, “I was so scared by all those shots; it sounded like the Fourth of July.” Again, according to the subject, his wounds “only started to hurt when I woke up in the hospital.” The officers had used 9-millimeter, department-issued ammunition. The surviving officers re ported that they felt vulnerable.

They wondered if they had done some thing wrong that caused their injury or placed them in the proximity of physical danger. They also wondered if they would react differently if faced with a similar situation.

 

[jdsumner]

If the bullets do not disrupt the \'wiring'of the target (central nervous system) you may not get a 1 shot DROP. You may have to wait for the subject to cease hostilities from loss of blood (hydraulic failure), or you may have to fire untill the \'drive train'(musculo skelatal) system is damaged to the point the target ceases, cardio failure for lung shots,or a psychological shutdown occurs (dude realizes he\'s been shot, and in accordance with Hollywood, flys rearward and falls). Actually, he just realizes he\'s been shot and reacts as programmed by Hollywood. Deal is, its a crap shoot. That is, I believe, why most instructors teach firing at least more than one shot at the onset of an attack before assessing hits/damage. Or, more precisley, firing untill the threat has ceased all hostile motion.
If there is an instructor in the house, please help me out and correct my errors.

Dan

 

[KC135]

Just another student Dan, but you have the subject well covered.

Assessment is best done when problem is down, and you are behind cover.

Some indications that you have \'changed his channel'are, turning away, bending knees, dropping his weapon/s.

 

[AZG23]

Originally posted by jdsumner
If the bullets do not disrupt the \'wiring'of the target (central nervous system) you may not get a 1 shot stop. You may have to wait for the subject to cease hostilities from loss of blood (hydraulic failure), or you may have to fire untill the \'drive train'(musculo skelatal) system is damaged to the point the target ceases, cardio failure for lung shots,or a psychological shutdown occurs (dude realizes he\'s been shot, and in accordance with Hollywood, flys rearward and falls). Actually, he just realizes he\'s been shot and reacts as programmed by Hollywood. Deal is, its a crap shoot. That is, I believe, why most instructors teach firing at least more than one shot at the onset of an attack before assessing hits/damage. Or, more precisley, firing untill the threat has ceased all hostile motion.
If there is an instructor in the house, please help me out and correct my errors.

Dan

:kay: Good post

 

[rfurtkamp]

I\'ve never been shot somewhere vital, just a minor graze across an ear. I didn\'t realize it at the time until the blood got noticeable.

I\'ve been in intimate contact with a knife on several occasions. Typically, it\'s not the getting plugged that hurts as much as the removal. If I extrapolate that to bullets, I may not feel it at all - one time I took a knife in the hand and didn\'t notice until it was over.

(and people wonder why I left Chicago for Idaho! )

 

[F350]

jdsummer

you may have to fire until the \'drive train'(musculo skeletal) system is damaged to the point the target ceases

There is much talk of 2 to the chest 1 to the head in case of failure to stop, but the head is a small often moving target. Having suffered a relatively minor pelvic fracture in a fall I can attest to the immobilizing effect of a pelvic fracture. In my mind I keep open the option of shooting for the \"pelvic triangle\", it may not be socially acceptable to shoot for the \"goodies\" but if you need to stop an assault, taking the legs out from under your attacker is something to keep in mind

 

[jdsumner]

Dammit, dude!! (F350)

\"shooting for the \'goodies'\", I just spit my coffee on my keyboard. Still laughing!!

Yeah, the pelvic shot is a controversial subject (9 v 45, kimber v colt, spare mag). I just try to apply it to any given situation.....if I\'m backing up from a VERY close attack, I notice I tend to duck. So as I\'m backing up and trying to stand up my shots may \'track'up from the pelvis area as that may be all I can see for the moment. Backing up, stepping off the line and punching a few into a hip as the attacker turns MAY help buy me some time and distance from the attack. Just my thoughts.


Dan

 

[Tangle]

Good article, but what irony! An article about the myth of one shot stops and it opens with a police officer being stopped with one shot to the head.

I\'ve read a number of articles along the same line and hear that five and six shots are often required to get the job done. Then I read how great five and six shot revolvers are for self defense guns. I ain\'t buyin'it. I\'ll take my 15 round mag and 15 more on my belt. If I don\'t have to use them, then I\'ll burn up some calories carrying them. Either way, more is better.