['75scout]

My father and I wrestled with a minor last night after he trasspassed on our property.

First here is some background info. My house backs up to an elementary school's playground. Highschool kids are frequently messing around there late at night. School refuses to turn on lights and we have chased the off numerous times. My room is on the right side of the house and I have large windows in both walls facing outward. My parents sleep at the other end with siblings behind me and inbetween my parents and me. My parents room leads to our carport. I have a lawn mowing service and my suspected they might be steal some equipment.

Now for last nights events. It was approx. 1 am when I heard someone run through my flowerbed towards the carport. I got up and put on my glasses and grabbed my Surefire EL1. I then went for my Remington 870, but decided against in because I figure it was some kids as usual and I didn't want it to escalate to that level. I just grabbed my Spyderco Delicia. I went down to my parents bedroom and opened the wooden door silently and left the glass door closed. I didn't shine my surefire right away because I saw flashing Police lights on the school playground. I stood they silently for 60 seconds or so.

I saw a kid I knew from school (a known drug addict) walk inbetween my mowing trailor and our Expedition, he was unarmed. He is two years younger than me and should be a senior this year. I shined my light and he crouched down behind the SUV. I shined my light back and forth to see if he tried to rush me or run away. He stayed put. I woke up my dad while keeping my eyes on the kid. We both went outside to confront him. My dad questioned him about why he was on our property and was he trying to steal something. He replyed he was waiting for his mother and he had just broken up with his girlfriend. He tried to run past my dad and my dad grabbed him. He picked him up and pushed him up against a steel pole that supports our carport. I grabbed his right arm and helped my dad restrain him. He said he wanted to get "F***ing aggressive" so I put him in a head-lock and twisted his arm. He complained he "couldn't f***ing breathe", I said I thought he could breathe just fine. He reeked of booze and was probably on crack or at least dope. Both very popular drugs at our highschool. The police quickly came and took him into custody and we told him what had happened. They asked if he threw any punches and we said no, just a little wrestling. They left after a few more questions and we spent the majority of the remaining night trying to sleep.

What I know I did wrong. 1st I should have put on shoes, which were nearby and I could have quickly put them on. 2nd I should have brought the shottie with me but once I knew he was unarmed I could have left it inside. 3rd My mother, father and I discussed our plan of action if this happens again. She would call 911 and stay inside and we would deal with the threat.

 

[srfl]

I'm glad you and your family are fine after that encounter.

Great breakout of the situation, background and observation of mistakes. Don't beat yourself up too much over any mistakes. Plans have a way of going south once the action starts....however do have a plan of action and train for it....and not just you, any and everyone living in the house has to train for it as they all should have a role.

You hit the nail on the head...no shoes and no firearm were glaring concerns; but not immediately calling 911 and going outside to confront a known troublemaker was the biggie to me. Drug addicts have a way of becoming hostile mighty quick....had he had a knife of his own or a gun, then one of you might have gotten severely injured.

Maybe you could invest in sensor activated floodlights for the areas were your pilferable equipment lies. Perhaps challenging him from within your house (thus keeping cover and concealment) with your shotgun might have been an option.

 

[Rock and Glock]

I'm glad you and your family are fine after that encounter.

Great breakout of the situation, background and observation of mistakes. Don't beat yourself up too much over any mistakes. Plans have a way of going south once the action starts....however do have a plan of action and train for it....and not just you, any and everyone living in the house has to train for it as they all should have a role.

You hit the nail on the head...no shoes and no firearm were glaring concerns; but not immediately calling 911 and going outside to confront a known troublemaker was the biggie to me. Drug addicts have a way of becoming hostile mighty quick....had he had a knife of his own or a gun, then one of you might have gotten severely injured.

Maybe you could invest in sensor activated floodlights for the areas were your pilferable equipment lies. Perhaps challenging him from within your house (thus keeping cover and concealment) with your shotgun might have been an option.

Ditto with the above analysis - the motion activated fllods are great! Spend enough that the sensitivity and range on it can be finely adjusted - if not it will go on and off all night from critters, etc.

I think you've analyzed the incident well, your after action sound, and your "upgrades" in process good.

 

[cmidkiff]

I second SRFL's opinion... Invest in some motion activated flood lights. Perhaps even a security camera, as well.

These kids will learn quickly that entering your yard will get them illuminated and photographed. _Not_ something they are going to want.

One more thought: you have likely made an enemy out of this kid... and he probably won't stay in custody for long. Be carefull, the situation could get much more serious!

 

['75scout]

Yes, we have already decided to add motion activated flood lights. We are lucky because our local police station is just a mile from the elementary school, so they patrol our street often. And their response time is great. Really a good wake-up call to get a plan straitened out before the next time.

 

[RSSZ]

In your post you stated,"I reaked of booze.....". You probably should edit that.

We here in this forum were not there so for me,it's hard to say what's right or wrong. I would just suggest the more light the better(I have a rechargeable 3 million CP hand held flood by my back door) and ALWAYS,ALWAYS,take a gun to a potential gunfight.

I've delt with sweet lookin little kids before. They can harm you just as fast as an adult. Don't take anything for granted.

You'll be on your property,you can have a gun.Exercise your right to be ready to protect what's yours. But yeah,keep the "excessive force" thing in mind.

All in all,I think you done good. -----


Post Restored By QKShooter

 

[Tom357]

[QUOTE='75scout](snip)...I saw a kid I knew from school (a known drug addict) walk inbetween my mowing trailor and our Expedition, he was unarmed...(snip)

What I know I did wrong. (snip)...2nd I should have brought the shottie with me but once I knew he was unarmed I could have left it inside...(snip)[/QUOTE]
This part troubled me. How did you know for sure that he was unarmed? Why would you voluntarily give up your advantage in a confrontation by disarming?

Just because he did not appear to be carrying a weapon doesn't mean he didn't have one concealed. Just because he didn't have a weapon, at first, doesn't mean he couldn't improvise one as soon as you disarmed.

 

[Scott]

Definitely get the motion activated lights.

Shoes and the shotgun should have been with you.

I see you are in Texas. Texas has different laws on the use of deadly force at night. My limited experience with potential BGs and shotguns is they become very compliant and agreeable when looking down the business end.

RSSZ, he made a couple typos as I read it. He used I versus he in two instances. I'll fix it for him as a friendly edit.

75scout if I fix it incorrectly just put back the I's.

-Scott-

 

[rocky]

Glad everything turned out alright. Seriously consider your actions, and how if the BG was armed it could have gone down diffrently. especially if the BG had a knife and waited till you were in close range to use it.
With the PD so close why not cover someone from a good position of cover? If the BG gets away , who cares. better to be safe, than die for replacable items.

 

[Blinky]

Much good advice here. Remember to keep the odds in your favor as much as possible.

- Bright lights outside.
- Dim to no lights inside.
- Stay in the house and identify the location of all family members.
- Keep family members in a safe location away from potential gun fire.
- Maintain visual on the BG while family member notifies 911.
- Do not confront the BG, unless forced to - eg. the BG attempts to get into the house.
- If confronting the BG, maintain distance with your firearm, close enough to comfortably and accurately engage, but distant enough to avoid an attack.
- Avoid cornering the BG. This usually escalates the issue. I personnally don't want to have to shoot anyone, even a BG, if I can avoid it.

 

[P95Carry]

In your post you stated,"I reaked of booze.....". You probably should edit that.

He reeked of booze and was probably on crack or at least dope.

I only read this! Unless something was edited to change.

I can boringly add - yes - motion sensor light or lights - well worth the trouble. Also yes - no way to know if he night have been armed, not that you'd want to be over zealous with your own weapon/weapons but - some insurance at least.

Overall seems to have panned out Ok, which is a relief.

 

['75scout]

One thing that made me hesitate about takeing a weapon with me was that I could see flashing lights from the police cruiser about 75 yards away. I had no way of knowing if a police officer was nearby and I didn't want he/she to see someone with a 12 guage pointed at someone else.

If it had been an adult and no police I would have been sure to have it in hand. I have one potential tactic I'd like input on from you guys. If I know his location and have the element of suprise, when I decide to confront him should I be very quick and loud (come up on him quick and yelling commands)? This would certainly have a confusion factor. The initial shock factor and aggressiveness might make him more submissive, like Police SWAT teams. Is this a good idea? If not give me some other options.

 

[P95Carry]

I see your point re the shottie but - even that could be held discretely along back of leg so - not too obvious or threatening - just ''available'' :wink: And if on your own property too - that makes a big difference IMO.

Re the approach aspect. NO - I would not think SWAT at all - you are not in a troop of guys. And, most important IMO - distance is your friend!!!

A verbal from distance might be useful if authoritative and with a good flashlight available but consider the possibility of a kid with a handgun - not totally impossible so - keep a distance plus, do not just stand without cover, making yourself a good target!!.

 

['75scout]

Thanks. Distance would definatly be my friend, especially when I had a longarm and the BG is at most concealing a handgun. But there was no cover directly inbetween us, only concealment. And If I had gone for the only cover nearby it would have been our VW Jetta, but that would put me between the BG and my family. If there was a shootout they'd be put at risk too. But I'll be sure to keep aware of where cover is in relation to me.

Recently as I have started to get in the mindset of carrying, although it will be 8 months until I'm 21, I am more aware of my surroundings. I purposely make note of others near me and look 360 degrees before entering/exiting vehicles. I also have started to park my truck where the driver side door faces the direction I'll be walking when I'm alone. If my fiance or others are with me I face the drivers side door farthest from the place we'll be walking towards. I've also gotten my fiance in the habit of being aware of her surroundings and locking her door immidiatly upon entering her Jeep.

 

[Colin]

In addition to motion activated lights, quite a few schools here are starting to use motion activated sprinklers, dampens the fun of people trying to vandalize them.

 

[Wayne]

motion activated sprinklers

Hmmmm, I wonder if motion activated OC would be legal here :biggrin: (no man traps allowed so I don't know if legal).

I put up four motion activated spotlights after my mowing equip. was stolen... Lights up the entire block. I didn't realize exactly how powerful 10million CDL was lol (I think they are 10mil).

The only drawback is that now the police stop vehicles in my front driveway because they don't need to use flashlights to see the people in the car (but, it's a good thing also I guess lol).

Wayne

 

[Doc Holliday]

Never take a knife to a potential gunfight. Always take a gun or two or three! The 870 should have went with you. With the police so close, I think that I would have stayed in the house and called 911. I would have given them a description of the suspect and where he was hiding. Weren't you able to make a positive ID from inside the house that he was a classmate? You and your father both going out left your Mom in a dangerous postion. What if the perp had a buddy or two that decided to hole up in your house with your Mom. Since your 870 was inside, you have a potential hostage situation and your own weapon could have been used against you. With it being dark outside the "homefield" advantage was with the BG. If he wants to play ball then make sure you have the homefield advantage which I believe is in your home. Although your lawncare equipment is your livelihood, it is just material objects that can be replaced. YOU CAN'T BE REPLACED. With all that being said, I do commend you for your courage and fight. It is great that you have seen some mistakes and that you will correct them. Another word of advice, watch your back at school. Be sure that you have informed the administration what has happened so they are aware. If you have to defend yourself at school the principal may be a little more lenient on you if he has a heads up on the situation.