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The Scenario: You come out of your front door and you see a group of 4 males severely beating and kicking a 5th one on the street right in front of your house. You do not know any of them. What would you do?

The Rules for this thread: Write what you would do and explain it. It can be explained tactically, politically, legally and even morally. Take in consideration your local laws (mention the state) and possible consequences of what you do and do not do. It is accepted that all situations are unique and so cannot be always treated as generalizations

DO NOT: Engage in a flame war. Do not attack other Member’s post. Corrections like clarifying or reminding a local law, a mistake on a name or event/date/location or similar can be done but politely. Think of this thread as a very detailed poll and not subject to criticism..
 

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Ahah - much food for thought Miggy.

It is too darned late to comment on this and need to give it some thought so - on the morrow I will do my best to provide some thoughts.

I think for this excercize we all need to not only note the potential for inevitable generalizations, whereas all happenings are really unique in the end - but maybe we could add personal assumptions in order to let those support our reasoning.

In other words - ''let us assume'', for purposes of discussion. Or - "I am imagining'' - x, y, z etc. Individually flesh out this ''generic'' scenario.
 

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trying to steal my THUNDER migs?

hahahaha tough call tho, I will def post my opinion in the daylight.
 

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Ok, I'll play. Even tho I find this thread at after 1AM. What the heck I'm on vacation and can stay up past my bedtime. :wink:

Assuming that in the scenario you give, the range to the situation is very close, inside say 50' and that I have just walked out the front door. I would draw my cell phone from my belt and press 9, (speed dial is programmed for 911), I would then draw my 1911 and hold it behind my right thigh, out of sight, and yell at them to stop and go away that the police are on the way. I would then stay where I am and wait for them to run off. If they continued to beat on the man I would continue to shout commands at them while describing the men to the dispatcher. If they decided to take me on as well, too bad.
I would not run out into the street with a drawn weapon and threaten to shoot them if they didn't leave. That would be provoking a deadly force incident.

That's my initial reaction and my .02 worth.
 

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I would do pretty much the same as acparmed. Call 911, give description to police, let the guys doing the beating know that the police are on the way and they should stop. I would stay on my porch, stay on the phone, hand probably resting on my holstered pistol. If they entered my yard heading for me. Different story.

KC
 

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naw, pull pin , throw , close door. J/K. I would do about the same only be in the dorway, call and give all info to PD, including CCW holder decpt. before yelling to the crowd. I would also be ready to retreat inside. This way I could 1. defend myself better.2. leagally , retreated and on the defensive 3. get a carbine with more ammo than my pistol.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
d2thomas said:
trying to steal my THUNDER migs?

hahahaha tough call tho, I will def post my opinion in the daylight.
Actually trying to save your thread from kidnapping in which I plea guilty too. :biggrin:

A good many thoughts were given there in respect of Intervention or not so I wanted a thread where people could say them.
 

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Based on the previous threads I know the 'correct' thing to do. And I could just say that. But visualizing this scenario at MY house in MY area... I would tell the wife to get the shotgun and call 911. (When I'm home the wife usually is too.) I would then do the same as above, ask them what the hell they are doing and that the police are being called. If they did not stop or at least explain themselves, I would draw and repeat my command.

The only reason I say this is that I live in a fairly remote area and response time is a joke. If the four guys are intent on beating this person to death - he will die. I realize I don't know the circumstances - but I have to figure that if the four guys intentions are good they will explain themselves. In a more urban area - I would probably do as everyone else above.
 

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Got to say it would be acparmed +1. Except instead of a 1911 it would have to be a 9mm SIG.

Living in Maryland I would stay in my doorway, and if they came at me I'd move back into the house letting them at least enter before even thinking about a shot...... If they enter, all bets are off!
 

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Im with Acparmed on this ... not escalting the encounter is what i would try to stay away from police responce is pretty fast here they know me well and are only 1 mile up the street
 

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Mmmmmm, depends. If I saw "colors" I knew, I'd let them work it out. If it was a total unknown, ditto above on the call to 911, but I believe I would be more inclined to present with a bolt-action and light so it could be seen. Lotsandlotsandlots of thugs/bangers have been shot, and have marginal respect for a handgun; I don't have a shotty any more, and taking the 91 outside might get me more attention from PD than the BGs, so.... (Besides, a 165 gr spitzer drops things with remarkable alacrity.) I would have a HG for transition, if needed. OK legal, with reasonable, observed, "lethal intent" by the BGs.
 

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OK, I think I was the one that started this debate in the other thread(Sorry D2Thomas). I'm out in the yard intervening. In TX, there are protections for me legally if I intervene. Phone will be in pocket on speaker mode connected to 911, and the guys doing the beating would be at gunpoint.

As stated before, I will not stand idly by while someone is done dirty.
 

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In my case, my worry is not the alleged perpretators but the victim. The point here is to cease an attack that could lead to death or great bodily harm. Being at home either my wife or I will call 911 and advise them of the situation plus that I about to intervene giving them a full description of myself, get my shotgun, get out, scream STOP over and over, rack a round and aim at them when I get their attention. After that I'd be yelling at them to leave the area inmediately or they will be shot. If they heed and leave, I'll make sure they are not coming back and attend to the victim till rescue and PD arrives.
 

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Just have to make sure the 'victim' is really a victim. As others have pointed out - intervening can be messy as things may not be what they seem. The 'victim' could be a child rapist or a murderer. You don't want to let them go.
 

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As an extension of this scenario - you call 911 and shout at the thugs to stop assaulting the man and that you've called the police. They seem to pay no heed but step up there actions on their victim in order to finish the job before the cops get there.

The cops are on their way but may not arrive for another 10 minutes. The thugs seem intent on not stopping until the man is no longer breathing and they do not respond to your verbal threats.

At THIS point - what do you do?
 

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My mental picture is based on as if it was outside my own place so I have an advantage here - no one else can ''see'' my imagined picture.

First and foremost I or wife get that 911 call in, priority. I am assuming here too this is a major beating - with victim on the ground and kicking - this is where a beating quickly turns lethal.

At first opportunity I would issue LOUD verbals from porch, my property - ''STOP'', and inform that cops called etc but no gun presentation - that stays covered but shottie would have been brought from bedroom to place by front door. Ideally wife can pick that up and stay hidden.

Much then will/would depend on response. Verbals would be repeated until a response and if that response was negative then some tricky decisions needed. I am not''wading in'' as Mr hero but I cannot stand by to see a killing with these odds, even if this was a totally ''internal'' gang affair. Not likely here in fact.

So, crunch time. This is where different state's laws will have a bearing. If I have perceived that the victim is close to death then I would have to use a gunpoint threat - no more options. If then BG's turn attention to me and are armed it would be rapidly game on. Other options cease.

Note I am staying by front door on porch. Not advancing. I also have from my slightly elevated position a safe and pretty clear field of fire for near 180º

Should they aquiesce to my commands then it would he hoped they could be held until cops arrive - but they have to stay put and so do I - but if they approach, which means they commit a trespass and steer threat my way then once more the gun decision crops up. I may have had them covered but if they are still unarmed I have a dilemma. I would have to decide if this potential for aggression is now turning on me - at what point could I ''let rip''.

That I honestly could not judge unless this was a real event and happening. I might place a definite distance limit and verbalize to them this limit - if they still advance then likely I would have to shoot, feeling that I could genuinely state after ''I was in fear for my life''.... seeing as there is still a near lifeless victim out in the roadway.

My wife in this imagined situation is still covering me from just inside the house and so is a back up as yet unused.

That's about as far as I can take it right now - but stress that even with this imagined scene - the number of potential variables is immense - meaning that one's brain is on constant ''auto-refresh'' with regard to second by second appraisal and decision making.

There is no perfect answer tho acparmed had a pretty reasonable plan - and much more succinct than this one of mine.
 

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joe/OH said:
The 'victim' could be a child rapist or a murderer. You don't want to let them go.
Since there is no way to know this (and even if there were) I'm not sure it would make any difference to the impact of the legal system on whatever you end up doing (sadly).
 

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Miggy said:
Actually trying to save your thread from kidnapping in which I plea guilty too. :biggrin:

A good many thoughts were given there in respect of Intervention or not so I wanted a thread where people could say them.

hahahaha thank you much....I'm glad I posted that story, it spawned some GREAT convo!

Here is my POV. I'm not a LEO. I'm not superman. I carry a pistol to protect me and my family. The best thing to do ["horrible" as it may sound] is to be a good witness. As a responsible gun owner and carrier you have to know the difference between proper and non-proper times to interject. There are too many "what if's" to know anything for certain - adding a loaded weapon to the mix when other people are potentially unarmed is just insane. Get the info, call the police but stand your ground for your own protection. I honestly think in a situation like that for me to get involved is just instigating more trouble.

Many a good anti-gun legislature has used the old "weekend warrior" gun toteing, wannabe cop citizen to discourge CWP passage.

my $.02
 

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It's not about being a weekend warrior, a cop, or super man. It's about watching someone being crippled or murdered in front of your house. A neighborhood scuffle is one thing - but this is four guys that are brutally destroying a young man - possibly killing him.

Another interesting variant would be - what if instead of a man being beaten by four men - if it were a woman being beaten by four men. Does your action change - and why?
 

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Part of my assumption here on which I tried to assess my possible actions - was based on to all intents observing a murder - someone being killed!!!

The gender of the victim would have no affect on decision making - because I am envisaging coming to this when the victim is already on the ground being kicked into oblivion.

Someone mentioned re sex offended as victim. Well much as I have no liking for those vermin - again here I see just a ''person'' being destroyed.

So - for me - do I continue as a spectator while a life is taken? If things are this bad demonstrably then hey - I still need to sleep nights!
 
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