[FortyFive]

If you have lost a loved one it may be better to not read this, life is difficult enough without reminding people. Richard


Deaths of Americans rise in Iraq 9-21-05
Reference AP reporting in the Orange County Register CA
www.ocregister.com

According to the AP the US toll is now over 1900. The most deaths suffered by state are California and Texas.
I extracted from the article chart US deaths in Iraq by age.
18-25 59%
26-35 29%
36-45 11%
46- > 1%

The TV media is focused on recent storms with little reporting on our serviceman fighting in Iraq. Seeing our fighting troops doing battle on the TV military channel shows bravery and determination by them to achieve their goal.
I have read at times our troops may be in Iraq for 5 or more years to help establish a stable and lasting government. Have you discussed with your teen children age 15 or so events in the near east and how it may impact their lives? Are you willing to have your sons and daughters joining up in the fight?
When we loose a family member there are many more lives affected by the loss. Will you face your parents and tell them their grandson or grand-daughter is dead fighting for (plug in a reason). Why do you think most deaths in Iraq are in the age group 18-25.
I hope to generate some interest in this thread by listing information and questions. Please don’t flame me, lets hear some good conversation. There is still a first amendment in force I believe!!! LOL :smile:

 

[RSSZ]

I would venture to guess that the most deaths in Iraq are in the 18-25yo group because most of the servicemen and women are of that age group. I will not comment as to weather we should have invaded them or weather the "war" is a valid one. I will say that I believe that we will be there for at least 7-10 more years. Remember Bosnia ?? You never hear about that little s---hole place anymore do you?? I have friends that have sons there NOW. How many troops are still there? You wouldn't believe it if I told you. I will tell you that some of our braviest are dying in that area and it isn't reported on the 6 o'clock news. SAD !!---------

 

[FortyFive]

That is interesting about Bosnia, there seems to be no accountability by anyone why we have people in these places and dying. I read an article where Blacks were the mainstay of the Army because they felt the most comfortable there and were treated better. Recently their numbers have decreased in recuiting drives. We are going to soak up resources in the near east for sure. Thanks for response.

 

[P95Carry]

Richard - one thing I am always very cognisant of is the ''extended loss factor'' let me call it. I have my own son and daughter - it takes little imagination to sense the feelings of loss.

The loss of just one guy affects so many - the immediate family - meaning parents and close relations - often a wife is widowed and a baby or two left fatherless - then all the friends. This list can be long.

Leaving aside the rights or wrongs of us being there - my heart sinks at every death I hear of, because I know the intense ramifications. This is why I not only salute all who served, or served and died - but also all the countless folks who are often hardly acknowledged - the berieved.

This is mostly young blood being spilled - and the current figure is depressing - considering how much longer we will (probably) be there. My heart bleeds with and for, all affected.

 

[FortyFive]

Thank you Chris for understanding the affect on a whole family when a serviceman or service woman is killed. I think we in America are failing to see clearly that aspect of people dying. Hope we see more of these coments.

 

[tanksoldier]

I fail to understand how some people can think we'll only need to be there 1, 2, 4 or whatever years. It takes a LONG TIME to set up a stable government. It's not something that happens in 30 minutes between commercials.

Every generation has had to face some sort of military challenge, some greater than others. 1940's WWII, 1950's Kora, 1960-70's Vetnam, 1980's Grenada and Panama, 1990's GWI, Haiti and the former Yugoslavia, 2000's Afghanistan and GWII.

We lost more soldiers in ONE HOUR sometimes during WWII than the totals we have lost in Afghanistan and Iraq... and the Iraqi people have lost far more than we. You need to keep all this in perspective. It seems much worse and so horrible because the TV news brings it right into your home every night, instead of being on a news reel that you see once per week.

 

[AutoFan]

We will be involved in the Middle East so long as the modern world needs more petrochemicals than the modern, civilized countries can (or will) produce. We choose not to produce more oil from FL, CA and Alaska because we feel it is better to pay others to possible pollute their coastlines and countries than taking that chance here.

We will be involved in the Middle East as long as there is a generation that remembers the Holocaust, and there exists power hungry amoral leaders willing to blame the Jewish people for their people's ills.

Military personnel will die due to enemy actions. They die in training accidents too. I believe that we should do all we can to minimize those deaths. But to insist that no use of military resources should result in deaths is insane. And all those who signed up for the military knew there was a chance they would die or be maimed while performing military activities. We don't cease police and/or fire operations in dangerous parts of cities because more than a certain number of police/firefighters have died or been injured that year.

We should honor those who die in service to their fellow man.

But the message that is sent to our enemies is that if you kill a relatively small number of American soldiers (not even civilians, but armed, armored soldiers), the Americans will go away, and let you return to your evil activities.
That truly would make their deaths tragic.

I don't want my son to die an early death on foreign soil fighting a pointless war. I also don't want him to die early in some attack on US citizens because we as a country would not stand up to some murderous thug. We are safer when we back up our words with actions.

As far as the numbers go, how many of those hundreds of thousands that have been in Iraq would have died in that same time period, statistically speaking? Subtract that number from the 1900 total and you have the real number of deaths due to our efforts in Iraq.

I suspect the larger numbers of deaths from Texas and CA reflect the large populations and number of bases in those states. The deaths in each age group probably reflect the demographic age breakdown of the troops.

18-25 - First stint in military
26-35 - Re-enlistees
36-45 - Going for the 20 year pension
46< - Lifers

Lastly, I think that the right thing to do is almost never an easy thing to do.

 

[FortyFive]

Hi AutoFan, good responses hope it generates more comments on our subject. Additional points to consider are the thousands of military being maimed and requiring long term care. Once strong and able-bodied they are now struggling to cope with life. Unknown are the thousands of health problems to arise from being in that part of the world. The toll on our nation is staggering especially with our young people.

America is faced with the deficit and borrowing from China and Japan to pay for our needs. I heard this on a talk show and don’t understand much about it. Hope someone understands about the finance situation we have borrowing from foreign governments, it would be interesting.

Let’s hear some more guys about our Iraq stuff.

 

[P95Carry]

Richard - it was remiss of me not to have included the guys who get hurt and maimed. They as young folks for most part have screwed up lives to try and handle, along with the associated family members who may have to take on a care roll.

That has long been a sore spot with me when I see Nam Vets's in particular treated like they are scum - as if folks have little or no idea what they went thru and why.

''Shoddy'' is a kind word to use often with the way vet's are sometimes treated and it riles me up - always did, even back in UK with Brit service guys.

I will bend over backwards to help out a vet in trouble, given the opportunity - our gratitude is too often all but lacking. I know many do not want drippy, parsimonious and empty thanks but sure as heck many probably wish they were treated like humans.

May sound a bit strong saying that but it is a reflection of what I have found at times.

 

[FortyFive]

Chris, bless you brother as the saying goes. The Nam Vets get treated very bad but I happy to see you have the American Spirit of old with the appreciation and memory of what the British and American Boys are doing. Sure glad we got guys like you around to keep the traditions and thoughts going. One generation of vets is fast approaching the age where hardly any will be with us. Take care and watch this thread I hope it continues.

 

[tanksoldier]

Well, if you heard it on a talk show I guess it's true. More likely they were talking about the trade imbalance, meaning we buy more from China than we sell to them. When you figure that the average Chinese yearly income is FAR less than that of an average American ($5,600 per capita GDP), what do you expect?

I heard this on a talk show and don’t understand much about it. Hope someone understands about the finance situation we have borrowing from foreign governments, it would be interesting.

 

[buzzg]

I have lost relatives and close friends in both WWII and 'Nam. Wars by and for every generation seem to be an undeniable fact of life. (Even though all of us using this web site carry arms we do not seem to be "warlike") America has, for some reason, always been at the forefront when the SHTF. I don't see that changing as long as we are the last bastion of freedom/liberty in an ever darker world. Some of our foreign etanglements have been ill advised, but I'd much rather fight 'em there than here. In the assault on Iwo Jima the Marine division that hit the beach lost 7,000+ in the first hour. Our total loss in WWII is estimated at 407,000+. In Iraq we have lost 1,900+ to date. Imagine that we were fighting terrorists in our streets in Bigville and Smallville, where many of the casualty numbers were our parents, sisters, brothers, children big and small. Our soldiers deserve all of our respect, support and admiration during and even more so after the hurly burly's done. I have friends in Iraq, both civilian and military and I pray for them daily. So far it's working.
I hope everyone here in the US remembers the terrible treatment handed out to the 'Nam vets and finds some way to atone for it as and when our brothers/sisters in arms return from the Middle East. There is an evil entity afoot in the world and these noble, brave people are meeting it head on. Do not forget that they are all volunteers and what that means in terms of honor, pride and integrity. They believe in what they are doing and so should we.

 

[buzzg]

Forty Five:
The debt situation you refer to is the way the U.S. Government finances its debt. We borrow from other nations to fund our operations. This, as I have been told is conducted through the World Bank. Imagine that you could borrow from a friend to get through life every day. Now imagine that same scenario with the added attraction that if he gets P.O'ed at you for some reason, he can recall the loan. How you gonna pay for it? We used to be a lender nation, we are now a debtor nation. Not a comfortable feeling.

 

[FortyFive]

Well done Buzzg, your response about our boys and fighting for our country is super. Thank you for the clearity on the loan deal, I thought something along those lines but when people talk about our nations debt its twist and shout time. :smile:
Remember we had between 50 and a 100 million souls depart this earth during the 2nd WW, many millions of diverse people were gassed in camps during that timeframe.