[Jacob Lee]

I would tend to agree with having it available prior to need (aka-before it hits the fan) I know depending on my dress and carry mode on a particular day, it would be near impossible to get a fast enough draw if someone was charging me for example, so I would have to go empty hand or improvised with other available objects first.

With a flat bottom shirt I can usually clear quickly enough, but again, if I have to untuck?:huh: Not so simple when the adrenaline hits. I don\'t consider myself blinding fast on draw, so I tend to focus more on positive grip and acquisition with the drills I practice. Awareness, avoidance and anticipation is still the number one option I would think.

 

[silvercorvette]

NO



It isn’t the first horse out of the gate that wins the race, it is the first one to cross the finish line

The total time it takes to get the gun out of holster and put a hole in the target is what is important. Shooter “A” may get the weapon out of the holster slightly quicker than shooter “B”, but although shooter “B” is slower getting the weapon out he may be faster getting the weapon on target an have a faster smoother trigger pull. Or maybe Shooter “A” got the weapon out faster but he had to adjust his grip before he could fire, and shooter “B” already had the proper grip while the weapon was still in the holster. It isn’t a contest as to who can point the fastest, the winner is the one that delivers the fastest most accurate shot.

 

[Tangle]

A smooth, consistent, RELIABLE draw is better than pushing speed to the point of \"missing\" the draw or shot.

I would always prefer to have my gun in my hand rather than my holster, but not every situation will permit that. But even if having the gun in your hand saves one second, the BG can still shoot you. Incapacitation times can be 10 seconds or more. How many shots can be fired in 10 seconds? That\'s why tactics are so important.

 

[FortyFive]

All well thought out response, thanks hope we get some more.

 

[Bumper]

I agree, you need to be the victor in placing the first accurate shot. That may or may not be the awarded to the first one to clear leather. If you and the BG are both good on first shot placement (in a stressful situation) then being the fastest out of the holster would, obviously, be more important, and possibly THE most important. I believe one needs to practice getting prepared positionally to draw your weapon. In the academy they drilled it into us to always maintain an \"interrogation position\", turning your weak side slightly toward the BG, weak foot forward and positioning your hands at the beltline, with the strong hand as close to your weapon as necessary. If you suddenly find yourself in a situation where you need to draw your weapon, you are already set up in the Weaver stance, the taught method of Denver PD when I went through. I maintain 99.9% of the time whether I am talking to a potential BG or my wife.

When you find yourself in a SHTF situation, you need any and all advantages at your disposal.

Someone start the Weaver vs Isosceles issue in a new thread, please. I know it\'s coming

 

[jdsumner]

You guys may have figured this out already, but I like Randy Cain\'s teachings. One of which is: \"don\'t take the curve any faster that you can make the curve\".

Dan

 

[RandyC]

The most important thing is to have a gun.

After that, the speed of your draw may or may not be important. Because it MAY be important, it may be very very important. I\'d definitely practice putting your gun into play quickly.

Bad guys aren\'t stupid: they will try to close ground on you and put you at a disadvantage before disclosing their purposes. Speed of presentation could be important for your survival. But I try to remember the old adage -- smooth is fast.:smug:

 

[Bud White]

I forget where i read it but i would like to say a book on Wyatt Earp.. Its not how fast your are its how fast you can put the first shot accuratly on target. A person who can slap leather fast but not hit what there aiming at with first shot or make a kill shot on the first shot isnt the winner...



Went something like that anyways..

 

[hummel]

i feel same as allot of you as well...its not so much speed as it is keeping your head on straight and making a smooth and accurate shot:kay::kay: even if it has to come from the hip...:saint:

 

[APachon]

Fortyfive, fundamentals of a quick draw can be broken down into a step process. From there you can analyze where in teh process you are tripping up and work on it from there. I worked with a guy who was a driver coach for an F1 driver (also ungodly fast presentation of a pistol and a tactical pistol afficianado who has attended schools across the US) who said they do not view a race track as a whole but rather in segments. He coached me on my pistol presentation and I have seen marked improvements. As such they would time given portions and see where improvements can be made.

~A

 

[Dwight55]

FortyFive, . . . on another site, one of the signatures goes something to the effect: Old age, treachery, and a .45 will win over youth and speed every time.

That is pretty correct too. Remember that you have to regain control once you are becoming victimized. Treachery, and slight of hand can help.

Can you knock over a stack of boxes between you and the bg?

Can you fake a heart attack to throw him off guard (while covertly reaching for that .45)?:huh:

Can you raise your left hand, look 10 feet to his right, and say \"Over here officer\"?:smug:

These routines are in my bag of tricks, may not fit yours, but they are a better plan than no plan. \"No plan\" is a failure to start with, . . . even a bad plan is better than it. Use your thinking process to develop different \"helpers\" and practice them.:kay:

May God bless,
Dwight

 

[AZG23]

I think its important to draw quickly and hit accurately..there is a fine line between speed/accuracy....

Practice the motions..and the speed you need will follow. You cannot say a blanket statement like yes you need to or no..you dont know the situation you may find yourself in...and may have time to slowly draw it..or it may have to have been in your hand an hour ago. Said it before, I\'ll say it again...practice,practice,practice.

 

[silvercorvette]

Situational awareness is more important than a quick draw. If you recognize a problem long before it becomes a threat you won’t have to rely on a quick draw. If you have to draw quickly you have failed in recognizing a potential threat. Had you paid attention to what was going on around you, you could have removed yourself from the area or you could have discreetly had your weapon in hand and hidden discreetly from view.
I look at it the same way with driving a car. If you have a newer car with an ABS system you should never or at least rarely have the ABS come into play. Anytime you need to push the break pedal hard enough to activate ABS you have failed to recognize a dangerous situation and didn’t take defensive action so you had no choice but to jam on the brakes and activate the ABS. The same thing applies to weapons. If you needed to do a fast draw you failed to take notice of what was going on around you. So you had to resort to a fast draw.

 

[AZG23]

This is VERY true silvercorvette...but you should still have the skill set.

 

[silvercorvette]

Originally posted by AZG23
This is VERY true silvercorvette...but you should still have the skill set.

I am glad that I have ABS breaks to bail me out if I wind up getting myself into a bad driving situation but hopefully my driving skills will keep from needing them. Anytime you get into a shootout it is usually a last resort. Most of the times we can avoid trouble before it happens. But sometimes there is no place to retreat to, or retreat is not an option. What if the unthinkable happens and you are in your house minding your own business when some low life breaks in. When that happens you hope your training becomes second nature and the stress of the encounter hopefully hasn’t effected your ability to place your shots. Situational awareness is most important because there is a 2 out of 3 chance for a bad result, always think cover. If you are attacked out of the three possibilities only one is good. #1 good, You win bad guy dead you live. #2 bad, You die bad guy lives. #3 bad, It is a tie you both die, that is why you always think of cover in situational awareness. Just because you score the first fatal shot doesn’t mean you had a favorable outcome. A person that is fatally wounded can take a long time to die and can continue the attack and the result can be a tie so you always have to consider the chances of a favorable outcome are only 1 in 3. So getting off the first fatal shot doesn\'t necessarly make you the winner.

 

[mike benedict]

I am and always have been a firm believer in a fast draw.

I believe if you can execute a under 1sec. draw you have at least a fighting chance against someone who already has a weapon in hand.

 

[silvercorvette]

The key is draw and execute and protect yourself at all times. A fast draw in itself is useless unless you are able to execute. And the fact that you were able to execute doesn’t mean that the attack has been terminated. Just remember that people don’t die just because they are hit. It takes time. And when someone is attacking you seconds can seem like hours. Get you butt behind cover. If you are moving toward cover you become a harder target to hit. There is a six page thread in the 1911 forum about dumb gun stuff you see in movies.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=99862&page=1&pp=40

We have all seen 1911s that fire 50 to 100 times without a reload. But what about the scene where you see someone shot and they fall down and die? Many times it doesn’t happen like that in real life. I don’t hunt but from what I know from reading about it sometimes when you hit an animal it will take off and run for hundreds of yards even though you may track it down and discover you have scored a one shot kill. If an animal is able to survive long enough to run hundreds of yards after being hit with a powerful rifle bullet how long can a human continue to attack after being hit with a handgun bullet that is puny in comparison? I have learned a few things from my training as a cop and the most important thing I learned was take cover first. Or if you are caught off guard, take cover while you are drawing your weapon. If you are moving toward cover you are harder to hit, and when you get behind cover you had lessened the chance of the encounter ending up as a tie. I am a fairly good shot, but a few years after I became a cop in 1970 our department incorporated moving targets as part of our training. I was shocked at how much harder it is to hit a target moving at only 1½ miles per hour in a straight line on a track. Imagine how much harder it will be to hit someone that isn’t moving in a straight line.

#1 Get behind cover before the attack, or better yet if you can get out of the area completely do so.
#2 If things happen before you are behind cover then move toward cover as you are drawing your gun.
#3 Fire off a shot while you are moving to rattle your attacker. You may get lucky and hit him but the odds won’t be good for you to score a hit while you are moving. You have to use good judgement on this one though, you don’t want to fire wildly while moving if there is a chance that you will hit an innocent person. If you happen to be in a mini-mart you don’t want to risk killing someone. But if your attacker is standing in front of a brick wall fire off a shot or two to shake him up as you head for cover.
#4 Once you are behind cover you have the advantage, expose as little of your self as possible and hope your training pays off. Once you are behind cover you have lessened the chance of it turning out as a tie.

 

[scbair]

Was it the late Bill Jordan who noted the less time it takes to produce your sidearm, the more time you\'ll have to fire it accurately?

To those who\'ve advocated situational awareness, having the weapon in hand before a threat becomes \"critical,\" noting and availing oneself of cover, etc., I simply say \"Amen, Brother!\"

However, should I fail in the above, and only recognize the threat as it swoops in for the kill, I\'d rather be practiced in a smooth draw stroke than have to \"wing it.\" :O

Elimination of wasted motion and repetitive, focused practice are the keys. When I was much younger, and lived in a rural area, I read a number of Skeeter Skelton\'s articles. I was particularly fond of his \"long-range\" and \"aerial\" shooting. As my small town\'s municipal garbage dump (yep, this was way before the \"sanitary landfill\" came into existence) was only a few miles from my home, and was in an isolated area, I gave the aerial targets a try. This was the only time and place I ever fired at glass targets; what difference could a few more shards of glass make at that dumpsite??

At any rate, I eventually became pretty proficient. I would holster my sidearm, and take a glass jar in my right (shooting) hand. I would hurl the jar upward, then arc my hand to the sidearm, draw, sight & squeeze. I wasn\'t 100%, but I was a lot higher than 50% successful. When I entered law enforcement, my confidence in my ability to rapidly and consistently deploy my sidearm reduced the urge to draw, or even grip, the handgun during tense confrontations.

Long-winded way to voice my \"yes\" vote on the importance of a smooth draw stroke.

 

[FortyFive]

randyc,scbair, silvercorvette and all the fine response from above;better than I had hoped for this is a great thread. Thanks to the fine police officers for giving us an important overview from their years of training and experience; boy nothing like hearing from the real mccoy. This is really a classroom session, just excellant presentations of what to think about when things go wrong. Thanks much everyone. If there is more keep it coming it will help our forum.