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Discussion Starter #1
The Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners posted this photo on their Facebook Page. LINK



They also included the question "Is this open carry or concealed carry?

In Michigan, it appears to be a grey area and there does not appear to be a consensus among gun owners or lawyers.


The reason for the question is in MI, a person can open carry in many/most pistol free zones (PFZ) if they have their concealed pistol licence. (CPL) However, non CPL members can not open carry in a PFZ. Yes, it is a loophole for right now... almost got fixed last year but was part of a larger gun bill that was vetoed a few days after the Sandy hook shooting.

For many of us with an IWB holster, it would only require changing the way we tuck in our shirt to go from concealed to open.
 

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IMO its OC...
 
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I think it would blatantly be open carry. Theres no attempt made to conceal the handgun at all. I could understand the argument "I bent over to pick something up and my gun became momentarily exposed" but the shirt is purposfully tucked in, thus exposing the firearm.
 

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Is it open carry? Well, to answer that question, answer this one: Can you tell without looking closely that it's a gun?
 
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Can't say for Michigan, but in VA it would be considered OC.

I don't see how it could be considered CC. It is plainly visible and there is no doubt as to what it is. Does MI say it must be fully visible to be considered OC? If so then the only way to OC would be to carry it in your hand, or have a clear plastic OWB holster.
 
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Open carry. The only thing different is a portion of the holster is concealed, the same portion that covers the firearm in any case. Exactly the same exposure of the pistol itself would take place with an OWB holster.
 
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My thought is that the same amount of the gun would be exposed regardless if it was an OWB or an IWB holster. The only thing that might be concealed here is the holster... not the gun.

(GH beat me to posting the same conclusion... by 60 seconds...)
 

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Just food for thought... looking for every little loophole to exploit in our carry patterns doesn't help the cause. All it does is draw attention to things so they can be closed up later.
 
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Nevada law:

NRS: CHAPTER 202 - CRIMES AGAINST PUBLIC HEALTH AND SAFETY
NRS 202.3653  Definitions.  As used in NRS 202.3653 to 202.369, inclusive, unless the context otherwise requires:
1.  “Concealed firearm” means a loaded or unloaded pistol, revolver or other firearm which is carried upon a person in such a manner as not to be discernible by ordinary observation.

IANAL, but it seems clear to me.

Ken
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Just food for thought... looking for every little loophole to exploit in our carry patterns doesn't help the cause. All it does is draw attention to things so they can be closed up later.
In someways I agree, and yet disagree. I personally believe that there should be clarity in the regulations to prevent harassment by LEO's who simply don't understand the regulations because they are not clear.

A great example was a person who had a CPL, and open carried in a school when he went to vote one day. The police were called, showed up, and talked with him about it. Although they realized that it was within his rights to carry and did not arrest him, they did give him a hard time about it. All of that would have been cleaned up if the Governor signed the bill last fall which would have prohibited OC in PFZ, but would have permitted CC if a person had an advanced level of training. All of my teacher friends where thrilled that it was vetoed, until they learned of the loophole.

Being educated fully on a matter is always better than being naive.
 

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Yes you can most assuredly tell that that is a handgun as opposed to a broken hockey stick..and yes it is open to view and not concealed in any fashion what so ever...saying that weapon is concealed would be like wearing a jock strap with a hole in the center for your doodle to hang out and then try to say it's not indecent exposure.
 

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I see the gun; it's open carry. No ifs, ands, or buts. Why would this even be a question?
 

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Open carry, but like others have said an untucked shirt covering the pistol would make it concealed. This would not be an accidental exposure of a concealed pistol. Now if the person was wearing a cover garment and the wind blew just right lifting the shirt to momentarily expose the pistol that would be accidental exposure.
 

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Around here we call that the Virginia Tuck and it is definitely OC.
 

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I see the gun; it's open carry. No ifs, ands, or buts. Why would this even be a question?
Yup, OC, no debate needed for me.
 
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