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Discussion Starter #1
I saw this console holster mount on another forum and would like to know if it's legal in WA. Some of the other forum members were saying that it was illegal in their state.
 

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You must have a valid permit to have any loaded pistol in your vehicle. This includes both an openly carried (as depicted) or concealed pistol while in your vehicle.

Loaded rifles are never permitted in vehicles in WA.

read, understand, and follow:
Chapter 9.41 RCW: Firearms and dangerous weapons

Carrying a firearm in that way is of dubious value from any perspective. I firmly believe firearms should only be attached to your body in a quality holster or in a safe.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I have my CPL, I was just making sure it's legal to carry it like that, since passengers have access to it, ect..
 

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I believe that Washington law requires it to be in "direct control of the permit holder" and not in the control of any passengers. So this would seem to be illegal if there are any passengers in the vehicle.

FWIW, a LEO from White Salmon told me it was required to have it directly on your body. Now we all know that LEOs aren't always accurate on the laws, but you can figure out what an encounter with this particular officer may end up like...

IANAL, and YMMV :bier:
 

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I don't know about it being legal in Washington, but that looks like a good set up.

Oh, and by the way, if it is illegal...just stick it in your holster when you get pulled over....
 

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I'm too tired to dig through the RCW tonight so lets assume its perfectly legal. There are still 2 problems with it
#1: The LEO will see it before he's notified of its presence. This sets the tone of the encounter.

#2: to avoid #1, you have to move or holster it. there is a good chance this motion will be noticed the LEO. This REALLY sets the tone for the encounter.
 

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FWIW in most states that I have been in, what isn't on other ppl's person is technically in the possession of the driver. I'm no lawyer though...
 

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FWIW, a LEO from White Salmon told me it was required to have it directly on your body. Now we all know that LEOs aren't always accurate on the laws, but you can figure out what an encounter with this particular officer may end up like...
In this particular case, the officer knew what he was talking about. See RCW 9.41.050

RCW 9.41.050 said:
(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
There is a letter of opinion from the state AG floating around which opines that firearms carried in a purse or glove compartment would be acceptable under this law. But as far as I know, we have no case law on this point -- and the black-letter law would certainly disallow the set up in your photo if we go by the face of things. In other words, you might later win in court (maybe), but the police would be on very firm ground if they arrested you, confiscated the weapon, and let the courts sort it out. And the prima facie reading of the law isn't favorable.

Best not to risk it.

pax
 

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Just keep it holstered on your belt. What's the big deal with hitting the belt release and pulling your firearm out?

That!
Having a pistol out in the open like that has multiple issues besides LEO's. From a practical standpoint, why would you want it to be seen from outside your vehicle? When you park, you must holster it, which also can be observed. Assuming you keep your doors locked when driving, it still is left out in the open, which is not in your control. Bad idea all around.
 

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I've never quite understood the need to "show it off". It's certainly a tactical blunder to reveal your capability, so it has to be something else. It's just what is that something else?

Every time I see somebody OC I realize how easy it would be to take them down. Very few CC holders in my experience stray too far from condition white so the unrestricted access to the gun (as in LEO) is not the issue. Fortunately I'm one of the good guys, so I just grin and pass on. I certainly don't want to be identified with them.

I carry multiple weapons at times and have made a decision that an out of nowhere warning shot COM is far superior than walking around with all my Aces showing. Do what you want though it's still a mostly free country. :smile:
 

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In this particular case, the officer knew what he was talking about. See RCW 9.41.050
Beat me to it. I'm moving out that way, so I've been researching WA laws. This will be an adjustment for me. I currently have holsters mounted to the seats of my vehicles, as they're easier to draw than from IWB, etc. (In MO no permit is required for vehicle carry and there's no restriction on loaded rifles/shotguns either).

But the way the WA law reads it would seem you have to have the pistol concealed on your person.

And PAX, would love to meet you when we get out that way. My wife has been browsing your site and loves it.

Semper Fi
 

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I like it

First, can you tell me where you found that little beauty and what it costs, if you don't mind?
Second, I live in Michigan and have a "CPL". The device you're showing would be legal for me because according to the law the gun is concealed in the entire car. If you don't have a "CPL" then you must keep the gun and the ammo in separate, locked places. For example I could lock the gun in my glove compartment and lock the ammo in the trunk and be good to go.
Jack
 

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In this particular case, the officer knew what he was talking about. See RCW 9.41.050

Best not to risk it.

pax
Pax said it ALL.

BTW, as an ex LEO, Legal or not ( which IMHO, it is NOT), you would NOT BE HAPPY with my RESPONCE. :comeandgetsome:

Puffer
 

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In this particular case, the officer knew what he was talking about. See RCW 9.41.050

Originally Posted by RCW 9.41.050
(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

pax
I'm going to have to go out on a limb and disagree with pax on her reading of 9.41.050.
The way that 9.41.050 is written, the 'and' is before the colon which precedes the enumerated list of (i), (ii) and (iii). The 'or' applies to all of the items in the list, so to be legal, you must comply with (a) and any one of (i),(ii) or(iii). As long as you have (a) a license to carry a concealed pistol and (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, you are legal. Not necessary to have it on your person.

Having said that, I would not carry in the way shown for several reasons, one of which is the moment you step out of the vehicle, if there are no other license holders in the vehicle, you would be in violation unless you took it with you. Also, if I have to leave the vehicle in a hurry, I want the gun to automatically leave with me.
 

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ak56,

Well, I'm not a lawyer and you very well might be right.

It's not really a point I would care to argue with a police officer on the side of the road, however.

:nono: :rant:

And your other points are cogent ones for sure!

pax
 

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I'm going to have to go out on a limb and disagree with pax on her reading of 9.41.050.
The way that 9.41.050 is written, the 'and' is before the colon which precedes the enumerated list of (i), (ii) and (iii). The 'or' applies to all of the items in the list, so to be legal, you must comply with (a) and any one of (i),(ii) or(iii). As long as you have (a) a license to carry a concealed pistol and (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, you are legal. Not necessary to have it on your person.

Having said that, I would not carry in the way shown for several reasons, one of which is the moment you step out of the vehicle, if there are no other license holders in the vehicle, you would be in violation unless you took it with you. Also, if I have to leave the vehicle in a hurry, I want the gun to automatically leave with me.
Both make a good case for the "GREY AREA" but realy, is this rig a good idea? like so many have said, just holster it, nothng good comes from advertising you have a gun, it will be ther when you need it.
 

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While I can't comment much on Washington law, I'll only say that I agree with ak56's interpretation of the syntax of the code. What you're willing to spend money on to defend in court though, is up to each individual.

However, I will say that I do see some significant merit to the setup. IMHO, one of the most likely scenarios to occur while you are inside of your vehicle is a car-jacking. In that scenario, the quick access to this rig would seem to be a huge improvement over a firearm in a holster, with a cover garment over that, and further restricted by a seatbelt. I would not exit my vehicle and leave that firearm there, but while in the actual act of driving, this seems to me to be a good alternative. Not sure I could bring myself to drill holes into the side of my console, though.

Hoss
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I certainly wouldn't leave it there once out of the vehicle, it would either come with me or be concealed within my truck. But from what I gather from the RCW is that it may not even be legal for me to put my gun in my console while I'm driving. For example when I get in my truck in the morning, I place my gun in my console, drive to work and leave it there until the work day is over, including when I'm on lunch (it comes with me if I get out to go in a restaurant).

If it is interpreted in the way of the gun must be on my person, then if I take a co worker to lunch in my truck I'm then obligated to remove the gun from my console and place it on my person...

But after reading ak56s reply and then going over the RCW again it appears he's correct, the wording is just a little confusing..
 
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