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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
While I cannot release all the information since it is an active case I am working, I will list the highlights and then you guys can figure what you would do.


Last Monday night, a 28 yr old male left his home to go to a store. He drove his late model (2015) car on an interloop in this area. As he neared the intersection where he would make a left turn from the inside lane, a car cut him off and parked across his travel path. A man wearing all black along with a face mask jumped out of the car and pointed a gun at the victim. The victim panicked afraid of a robbery and started to back up.

A second car pulled up on his rear bumper to prevent his backing up. The victim then turned sharply to the left, jumping a curb and getting onto the sidewalk to get away.

As he drove past the first car, the masked man fired 15 rounds into the car. The second driver fired 11 rounds into the rear of the car. None of the rounds hit the victim but the car was effectively disabled to the tune of $4,700 worth of damage. He called 911 on his cell as the men pulled him from the car. They kicked him and put some cuffs on him so tight that wrist damage occurred.

The police arrived very quickly (it was not far from a doughnut shop).

It turns out the men were working for a bail bond company. The man got a traffic ticket three years ago and failed to appear in court. The bondsmen were looking to make an $80 fee.

Now the real issue begins. The next day, a Judge accepted a $160 fine from the man and charges were cleared. However the bail bondsmen are both convicted felons with violence. Neither can own, be around or handle firearms. Both were charged with possession by a felon and reckless use of a firearm.

It is likely more charges will follow.

However, this could happen to anyone. Wrongful identification, an unpaid traffic ticket. You can be pinned in by two vehicles in a car jacking, robbery or many other things.

Given the above situation, what would you do?
 

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Ram the first car and try to take out the guy with a gun in the process ....

Someone in all black blocks me in and points a gun I tend to go to ram speed
 

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Not sure which one I would run over, but one of them for sure. I would most likely run over the one that I thought represented the most threat to me. Most likely the guy in front of me, because he would be standing between me and his car, unprotected. Then if I had to I would ram the guy behind if I did not clear a path for excape running over bad guy number one.
 

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Depends on which car I'm in. In my truck, I push the car ahead of me forward as it has a steel bumper and is less likely to get the radiator damaged or steer/drive tires wedged in inoperable. In one of my cars, I go backwards. I can drag the car away with the FWD if need be.

If none of that works out, it's time to draw and make the best of it.

As far as I'm concerned, these morons should get attempted murder at the least.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Depends on which car I'm in. In my truck, I push the car ahead of me forward as it has a steel bumper and is less likely to get the radiator damaged or steer/drive tires wedged in inoperable. In one of my cars, I go backwards. I can drag the car away with the FWD if need be.

If none of that works out, it's time to draw and make the best of it.

As far as I'm concerned, these morons should get attempted murder at the least.
There will be some serious charges lodged for sure. It is also likely the bonding company will be sued for damages. The victim has proper cause to do so and I would if my car had been damaged due to stupid acts over a misdemeanor charges.

Even POST certified commissioned police officers cannot shoot at one fleeing a misdemeanor warrant.
 

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There will be some serious charges lodged for sure. It is also likely the bonding company will be sued for damages. The victim has proper cause to do so and I would if my car had been damaged due to stupid acts over a misdemeanor charges.

Even POST certified commissioned police officers cannot shoot at one fleeing a misdemeanor warrant.
And since when are misdemeanor warrants served at gunpoint? Not identifying as some form of LEO and pointing a gun at someone is a good way to get shot.
 

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Scary story to be sure. But what I am not getting is the 'it could happen to you'. Sounds like an outlier. Illegal, not standard practice and I've never heard of such a thing. I have watched 'Dog, BH' but he's going after felons and recidivists/

Is is common for bail bond companies to hire and arm former felons?

Maybe you meant to use it as an example of violent car-jacking could happen to you? Have you ever heard of it before?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
The bonding company should not be hiring felons. Their agents are supposed to be upright citizens. Some are hired because they wre working off an amount owed the bonding company. Yet they are not to hire felons. Felons are not to carry sidearms.

People are not supposed to shoot at anyone recklessly, especially for a misdemeanor warrant. Also not to shoot at any fleeing subjects.

The agents for the bonding company are going to jail and will be there for a long time. I anticipate the bonding company will not be in business much longer. It is a strong possibility the victim will sue their insurance company.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Scary story to be sure. But what I am not getting is the 'it could happen to you'. Sounds like an outlier. Illegal, not standard practice and I've never heard of such a thing. I have watched 'Dog, BH' but he's going after felons and recidivists/

Is is common for bail bond companies to hire and arm former felons?

Maybe you meant to use it as an example of violent car-jacking could happen to you? Have you ever heard of it before?
Mistaken identity gets people shot quite often. People using firearms wrongfully shoots a lot of people each year. People often shoot people when they think they are doing so legally but the law looks at it differently.

Any of us can be shot wrongfully, illegally or accidentally.

About five years ago I worked a case in which a man was involved in a hit & run. He chased down the vehicle he thought was the one that struck his car. It was not but he pulled a gun on the man after running him off the road and flattened a tire with a gunshot as well as threatening to shoot the driver if he tried to leave the scene. He went to jail.
 
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Given my experience in Demo Derby /dirt track racing and being armed all the time ................... 'Spect there would have been a lot of loud singin and slow walkin at those feller's homes ...............
 

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Given the above situation, what would you do?
1. take my car to a body shop
2. go on vacation and wait for my lawyer to call and let me know when I can get the keys to my new bail bonds company.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Guys, how often do we hear about the police going into the wrong house with felony warrants? It is 2am and you are sleeping when the front door is compromised. You grab your nightstand gun (which I am against) and you are going to get killed by police when they had the wrong house but you are only protecting your home with your legally owned firearm.

Wrong house, wrong vehicle, and idiot working on the wrong job while carrying a firearm, a hot head driver with road rage and a firearm, a decent citizen with a nightstand gun. There are so much more I could list that can get innocent people killed.
 

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Guys, how often do we hear about the police going into the wrong house with felony warrants? It is 2am and you are sleeping when the front door is compromised. You grab your nightstand gun (which I am against) and you are going to get killed by police when they had the wrong house but you are only protecting your home with your legally owned firearm.

Wrong house, wrong vehicle, and idiot working on the wrong job while carrying a firearm, a hot head driver with road rage and a firearm, a decent citizen with a nightstand gun. There are so much more I could list that can get innocent people killed.
So you don't think people should be ready to protect themselves?

Serving a no knock warrant at 2am is just plain stupid. I am a law abiding citizen, if someone kicks in my door at 2am I will instantly consider them hostile. Anyone can yell "sheriff's department"
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
So you don't think people should be ready to protect themselves?

Serving a no knock warrant at 2am is just plain stupid. I am a law abiding citizen, if someone kicks in my door at 2am I will instantly consider them hostile. Anyone can yell "sheriff's department"
You are correct in so many ways but we differ in many ways.

I am against nightstand guns. There have been many relatives, overnight guest and such shot by sleepy homeowners awakened by a sudden noise or movements when the homeowner grabs a nightstand (under the pillow or such) gun and shoots. It is best to keep a gun at least two steps away from the bed. This causes the homeowner to physically get out of bed to reach the gun and therefore be at least awake enough to correctly ascertain the situation and correctly identify the target. I will assure you that a person can get out of bed and retrieve a weapon long before a person(s) can get through a locked door and to the bedroom where you would be located. You may not have ever seen a six yr old girl laying on the bedroom floor, fatally shot by a father that had a nightstand gun hearing a noise in the home. I have a few times and will never forget any of them I have also seen young children shot by a nightstand gun that was accidentally left by adults but found by children.

In the case of say a no knock warrant at the wrong home, what is going to happen when it is proper LEO seeing you coming up with a gun? You WILL be shot. If it is a home invasion by thugs, you will have time to get your weapon and assess the situation, take proper cover long before they reach your bedroom. However the vast majority of home invasions are much different in entry than no knock warrant entries. Forced entry by thugs are usually by getting the homeowner to open the door during late afternoon or evening times. Thugs are not going to be dressed as LE and they will not be wearing body armor.
 
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While I cannot release all the information since it is an active case I am working, I will list the highlights and then you guys can figure what you would do.


Last Monday night, a 28 yr old male left his home to go to a store. He drove his late model (2015) car on an interloop in this area. As he neared the intersection where he would make a left turn from the inside lane, a car cut him off and parked across his travel path. A man wearing all black along with a face mask jumped out of the car and pointed a gun at the victim. The victim panicked afraid of a robbery and started to back up.

A second car pulled up on his rear bumper to prevent his backing up. The victim then turned sharply to the left, jumping a curb and getting onto the sidewalk to get away.

As he drove past the first car, the masked man fired 15 rounds into the car. The second driver fired 11 rounds into the rear of the car. None of the rounds hit the victim but the car was effectively disabled to the tune of $4,700 worth of damage. He called 911 on his cell as the men pulled him from the car. They kicked him and put some cuffs on him so tight that wrist damage occurred.

The police arrived very quickly (it was not far from a doughnut shop).

It turns out the men were working for a bail bond company. The man got a traffic ticket three years ago and failed to appear in court. The bondsmen were looking to make an $80 fee.

Now the real issue begins. The next day, a Judge accepted a $160 fine from the man and charges were cleared. However the bail bondsmen are both convicted felons with violence. Neither can own, be around or handle firearms. Both were charged with possession by a felon and reckless use of a firearm.

It is likely more charges will follow.

However, this could happen to anyone. Wrongful identification, an unpaid traffic ticket. You can be pinned in by two vehicles in a car jacking, robbery or many other things.

Given the above situation, what would you do?
One reason I always stop well enough behind the vehicle in front of me to see it's rear wheels, allows plenty of space to maneuver. I think ramming the vehicle in front of you is pure Hollywood action hero crap, why would you take the chance of disabling your own vehicle? :wink:
 
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