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Discussion Starter #1
Real simple scenario, real hard question.

Imagine you are walking across a lot and are about 30 feet from the entrance to a building when a fellow that you assumed was just walking down the side walk stops about 12 feet from you and pulls out a knife demanding your wallet. :hand5:

I imagine some would say easily draw and shoot, others would say draw and tell him to get lost. I myself would draw and tell him to freeze while I called the cops. If he came closer I would shoot but if he ran I don't know what I would do. I suppose I would just be a good witness and give the cops a ton of info.

Please take the scenario from the smiley. Thanks for all the great input. I think we get a great sense of judgment from these scenarios.
 

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The Police Policy Studies Council

You should ensure there is documentation somewhere that you have read the above article. If you are ever in this situation and decide to shoot, the jury will likely be instructed that your actions needed to be reasonable and they will need to take into account all the things you knew at the time. If you can document that you read and internalized the above article, it could be very helpful to you.

BTW, a healthy adult male will be able to close that 12 foot distance before the vast majority of ccw'ers can draw and place a shot on the target.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
The Police Policy Studies Council

You should ensure there is documentation somewhere that you have read the above article. If you are ever in this situation and decide to shoot, the jury will likely be instructed that your actions needed to be reasonable and they will need to take into account all the things you knew at the time. If you can document that you read and internalized the above article, it could be very helpful to you.

BTW, a healthy adult male will be able to close that 12 foot distance before the vast majority of ccw'ers can draw and place a shot on the target.
That was a great read. I will definitly link to that on my blog.
 

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12 feet? That's too close to play quick draw. If I had my hand in my left front pocket, I'd pull my BUG and put a bunch of tiny holes in him. Maybe toss him my money clip, run and try to get a lot more distance between us.
 

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12 feet is pretty close. Being that close to the door I'd probably head that way unless I already had my hand on my firearm like said above. I was taught within 20 feet shoot. Closer is obviously a new set of problems. Maybe pull a crocodile dundee and pull a much bigger knife.
 

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You might not want to believe this but from 12' an attacker can get to you and inflict a mortal wound with a knife before you could pull the trigger on an already drawn weapon or still get to you and inflict that same mortal wound before succumbing to being shot... if your tact is to draw and tell the BG to freeze, do so while quickly backing away from him!

Action is always faster than reaction... just sayin'! :wink:
 

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flip him the money and put some distance between you.... call 911.... then if the BG continues to chase you draw and (yell stop) or (when you have to shoot, shoot don't talk)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I was under the very wrong impression thinking that I was not in an ultimate emergency position since I was armed with a gun and the robber was 12 feet away with a knife.

I got ya, so at that distance I believe I would draw as fast as possible and shoot. Thanks for cluing me into that.

My purpose for posting this thread was to know what would be the best thing to do if a person holding a knife was around,,,,,,, lets say 17 feet away demanded my wallet and I drew my pistol with them still standing 17 feet away with my sites fixed on their kill zone do I:

Pull the trigger???

Demand that they drop their weapon and then call the cops and demand that they do not move???

Demand that they drop the knife and tell them to get lost???

My main questions are:

Do you shoot because they are armed, confronting you and close to you even though they are not descending upon you at this point???

What can you do if anything if you demand that they freeze until the police arrive? They could just run off. What do I do if anything at that point?
 

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By myself, I would draw. Take a couple of steps back and wait.(you said he stopped 12 ft away). If he came closer with a threatning manner I would shoot him.If he stopped so would I. If he turned at the site of my gun and ran I would call 911
 

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Its kind of hard to give an answer because there are tons of variables.Is there a shopping cart nearby? Are people around? Can I run in the store? Are there other options besides continue the confrontation?. Lots of things to consider real quick.

Here is one possible reaction to the scenario I guess and the reason the gun is coming out is because the distance is so close and the knife he pulled shows me intent to do bodily harm...

I would try to increase my distance from him while drawing my firearm and then whatever happens from there would depend on how the situation would unfold.
1. If he attacks... I shoot.
2. He doesn't do anything and we are in a standoff.....I might go to non lethal and OC spray his ass if possible
3. If he runs....cool. I am not gonna shoot him in the back or chase him. I'll start chasing BG's when the local PD puts me on the payroll or I find out Superman's my dad and I inherited his powers.

And of course I will call the cops when I feel the situation is diffused and I am safe.
 

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lets say 17 feet away demanded my wallet and I drew my pistol with them still standing 17 feet away with my sites fixed on their kill zone do I:
[list of options]
There is no perfect algorithm. Ultimately, your actions need to be legal and reasonable given the totality of the circumstances. A good defensive handgun course will help greatly with that. Also, there is a good discussion discussion of it here: http://www.corneredcat.com/Legal/AOJ.aspx. I'd change AOJ to be AOJP though (adding P for Preclusion and bringing it formally up to equal standing with AOJ).

Regarding your option of holding an attacker a gunpoint until police arrive, I'd throw that option out the window. Someone else explains why better than I can:

InSights Training Center Blog Holding criminals at gun point.
 

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your objective in this scenario is protecting yourself and removing yourself from harms way...you are justified to shoot if you feel its necessary but that opens a world of pain for you...emotionally, physically and legally...if you an use your firearm to buy you a path to safety and contact law enforcement you have won the encounter...

the best choice is to draw and put disatance between yourself and the attacker...moving laterally and back...its not a bad thing to practice so you can get your footwork correct without tripping over yourself and exposing yourself to more danger...

the guy who brought the knife to the gunfight has got some decisions to make and if you are convincing enough his choice will be to run like he has never run...be bold, be confident, be commanding...he'll get the picture...
 

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Actually No...with good reaction time and your already drawn firearm you could pull a trigger much faster than a scumbag could close 12' so that statement would be factually incorrect.
AKA trigger finger needs to move 1.5" ~ Bad Guy needs to move 12 feet.

"You might not want to believe this but from 12' an attacker can get to you and inflict a mortal wound with a knife before you could pull the trigger on an already drawn weapon"


However....this is quite true~~~> "or still get to you and inflict that same mortal wound before succumbing to being shot..."
 

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your objective in this scenario is protecting yourself and removing yourself from harms way...you are justified to shoot if you feel its necessary but that opens a world of pain for you...emotionally, physically and legally...if you an use your firearm to buy you a path to safety and contact law enforcement you have won the encounter...

the best choice is to draw and put disatance between yourself and the attacker...moving laterally and back...its not a bad thing to practice so you can get your footwork correct without tripping over yourself and exposing yourself to more danger...

the guy who brought the knife to the gunfight has got some decisions to make and if you are convincing enough his choice will be to run like he has never run...be bold, be confident, be commanding...he'll get the picture...
I agree
 

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Actually No...with good reaction time and your already drawn firearm you could pull a trigger much faster than a scumbag could close 12' so that statement would be factually incorrect.
AKA trigger finger needs to move 1.5" ~ Bad Guy needs to move 12 feet.

"You might not want to believe this but from 12' an attacker can get to you and inflict a mortal wound with a knife before you could pull the trigger on an already drawn weapon"


However....this is quite true~~~> "or still get to you and inflict that same mortal wound before succumbing to being shot..."
might want to revisit that...


Tueller Drill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

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A lot of people have "What about...?" questions.
The scenario is fairly straight forward. An armed assailant with apparent intent.
Shoot him.
If he flees, DO NOT shoot him in the back. Call 911 immediately.
The hesitation to second-guess yourself will more likely get you killed, and then the BG has a gun as well!
 

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Too close

12' is too close for me. In the training I have recieve 21' was always the magic number. I would be drawing as I was backing up and ordering him to drop the knife. If he drops the knife or doesn't come any closer I am on the phone with 911 after I have put some distance between us. If he flees I let him go and try to give the police as good a description as I can. If he continues to advance I put holes in him.:mad:
 
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