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I think this is concealed carry but it might be General discussion so if it needs to be moved please move it.

I brought this up as an offshoot of the medical records thread.

There's a discussion over on Glock Talk called "Being The Gray Man". It is a very well written article (for lack of a better word) but it deals very specifically with how you dress or how not to dress if you don't want to make it obvious that you're carrying a gun.

It really is a valid topic. I routinely pick people out of the crowd in church who are carrying guns and 90% of the time I start with the way they're dressed. The other 10% it's the idiot with the butt of the gun sticking out of his pocket or the idiot wearing the skin tight shirt over his Glock or the guy who's probably not an idiot but never stopped to think that somebody would notice the clips from his crossbreed supertuck and know exactly what they were looking at.

The guy that wrote that article did a really good job of it and I'm not going to try to rewrite it. I just want to hit some of his better points.

I've heard it called "The Garb Of Our Tribe". The 5.11 pants, the operator hat or the Gun Site hat or the Glock Perfection hat. The Rigger Belt. If you're running around dressed in The Garb Of Our Tribe people who are in our tribe are going to notice it.

But it's not just like minded people who notice it. There are some pretty savvy criminals out there who even pick up on some of the more subtle signs. I used to carry handcuffs at work and I've had people notice the handcuff key on my key ring and ask me if I was a cop. I quit carrying it because of that.

The 5.11 Tac pants, specifically the the old Royal Robbins style with that stupid strap. The local sheriff's department issues those pants as a plainclothes uniform. So do about half of the security companies in this town. To quote the guy on Glock Talk 5.11s are cop clothes. Cops notice people that look like them and criminals notice people that look like cops. I'm not even going to waste my time mentioning the hats. If you're walking around with a hat that says "Glock" on it don't be surprised when people think you're carrying a gun.

One of the points that the guy makes is that most people's idea of "concealed means concealed" is predicated on the idea that most people aren't paying attention anyway. That is true most people aren't paying attention but some people are. Once you're in an environment where people are paying attention your odds of being spotted go up. Once attention is focused specifically on you your odds skyrocket.

When people (on both sides of the law) know what to look for they generally find it. I see people carrying guns all the time and (to use another example) I'm not just talking about the idiots who want to hand me a concealed handgun permit as a form of ID or make damn sure I see their concealed handgun permit while they're getting their ID out.

So that's talking about how you dress but there's more to it than that. People in this country are choosing sides over the gun issue. All it takes is one disgruntled coworker or one pissed-off neighbor to make your life miserable.

I live in an apartment. There is one person in our building who lived there when we moved in. There's nobody that's management that was working there when we moved in. All the people that saw me coming and going from work with a gun belt on are gone.

I make a point of making sure that none of my neighbors even though that I own guns. They don't know what I do for a living. They don't know who I voted for in the last election and they don't know who I'm going to vote for in the next election. There are no bumper stickers of any kind on my car and I don't wear any clothes that have ANY kind of logos on them.

I carried a gun at work for several years and every so often I had to deal with one of the client employees who either wanted to tell me that guns were evil and nobody but the police should be carrying them and certainly not some $15 an hour security guard or it was the other side telling me how pro-Second Amendment they were and how they wanted me to blast the bad guys. There was also the idiot who made a point of finding me every time he came on site so that he could say "You better look out. Here comes the security guard. He's got a gun and he'll shoot you!"

Every time somebody said anything to me I said the same thing "I've been working here for ten years and I've never needed a gun yet. That doesn't mean I won't need one tomorrow." Then I'd either change the subject or tell them I had to go make rounds and leave.

So the bottom line is I keep a low profile any way I can. Unfortunately my apartment does not belong to me there are certain times when management has to come in and I don't have a choice about it but my gun safe isn't out in the living room. I don't flaunt it. My neighbors I am 30 years older than most of them anyway they don't know anything about me. And the real truth is my co-workers don't either. The easiest way I found to avoid answering questions about myself at work is to ask them about themselves.

What do you think?
 

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This has been discussed here many times. It depends on where you live and how far you take it. When I lived in Southern California and had a carry permit, I wore 5.11 pants (or shorts) all the time, usually with a Hawaiian shirt, and nobody ever said to me, "Are you carrying a gun?"

I wore the same type of outfit here in So Utah to our local rodeo and stood there filming with a video camera for at least 45 minutes with a LEO standing 10 feet behind me. He never said a word. Nobody cares.

Here in Southern Utah, so many people carry weapons that nobody seems to give it a second thought. At my wife's quilting guild monthly meeting a woman held up a quilting bag she had made in which she had included a pocket for her carry pistol and explained what it did. Nobody expressed outrage or even frowned and there were over 80 women in the room.
 

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I think this is concealed carry but it might be General discussion so if it needs to be moved please move it.

I brought this up as an offshoot of the medical records thread.

There's a discussion over on Glock Talk called "Being The Gray Man". It is a very well written article (for lack of a better word) but it deals very specifically with how you dress or how not to dress if you don't want to make it obvious that you're carrying a gun.

It really is a valid topic. I routinely pick people out of the crowd in church who are carrying guns and 90% of the time I start with the way they're dressed. The other 10% it's the idiot with the butt of the gun sticking out of his pocket or the idiot wearing the skin tight shirt over his Glock or the guy who's probably not an idiot but never stopped to think that somebody would notice the clips from his crossbreed supertuck and know exactly what they were looking at.

The guy that wrote that article did a really good job of it and I'm not going to try to rewrite it. I just want to hit some of his better points.

I've heard it called "The Garb Of Our Tribe". The 5.11 pants, the operator hat or the Gun Site hat or the Glock Perfection hat. The Rigger Belt. If you're running around dressed in The Garb Of Our Tribe people who are in our tribe are going to notice it.

But it's not just like minded people who notice it. There are some pretty savvy criminals out there who even pick up on some of the more subtle signs. I used to carry handcuffs at work and I've had people notice the handcuff key on my key ring and ask me if I was a cop. I quit carrying it because of that.

The 5.11 Tac pants, specifically the the old Royal Robbins style with that stupid strap. The local sheriff's department issues those pants as a plainclothes uniform. So do about half of the security companies in this town. To quote the guy on Glock Talk 5.11s are cop clothes. Cops notice people that look like them and criminals notice people that look like cops. I'm not even going to waste my time mentioning the hats. If you're walking around with a hat that says "Glock" on it don't be surprised when people think you're carrying a gun.

One of the points that the guy makes is that most people's idea of "concealed means concealed" is predicated on the idea that most people aren't paying attention anyway. That is true most people aren't paying attention but some people are. Once you're in an environment where people are paying attention your odds of being spotted go up. Once attention is focused specifically on you your odds skyrocket.

When people (on both sides of the law) know what to look for they generally find it. I see people carrying guns all the time and (to use another example) I'm not just talking about the idiots who want to hand me a concealed handgun permit as a form of ID or make damn sure I see their concealed handgun permit while they're getting their ID out.

So that's talking about how you dress but there's more to it than that. People in this country are choosing sides over the gun issue. All it takes is one disgruntled coworker or one pissed-off neighbor to make your life miserable.

I live in an apartment. There is one person in our building who lived there when we moved in. There's nobody that's management that was working there when we moved in. All the people that saw me coming and going from work with a gun belt on are gone.

I make a point of making sure that none of my neighbors even though that I own guns. They don't know what I do for a living. They don't know who I voted for in the last election and they don't know who I'm going to vote for in the next election. There are no bumper stickers of any kind on my car and I don't wear any clothes that have ANY kind of logos on them.

I carried a gun at work for several years and every so often I had to deal with one of the client employees who either wanted to tell me that guns were evil and nobody but the police should be carrying them and certainly not some $15 an hour security guard or it was the other side telling me how pro-Second Amendment they were and how they wanted me to blast the bad guys. There was also the idiot who made a point of finding me every time he came on site so that he could say "You better look out. Here comes the security guard. He's got a gun and he'll shoot you!"

Every time somebody said anything to me I said the same thing "I've been working here for ten years and I've never needed a gun yet. That doesn't mean I won't need one tomorrow." Then I'd either change the subject or tell them I had to go make rounds and leave.

So the bottom line is I keep a low profile any way I can. Unfortunately my apartment does not belong to me there are certain times when management has to come in and I don't have a choice about it but my gun safe isn't out in the living room. I don't flaunt it. My neighbors I am 30 years older than most of them anyway they don't know anything about me. And the real truth is my co-workers don't either. The easiest way I found to avoid answering questions about myself at work is to ask them about themselves.

What do you think?
I think you might be overthinking it all.
 

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I'm wearing a gray shirt, "the gray man" I blend. :danceban:
July18a.JPG
July18b.JPG

No, I don't were clothes that advertise such as a Glock hat, or "gun shirts" ect ..
I avoid printing, loose fit shirts for me and a stripe, plaid or print helps absorb slight printing.
Pictured is "summer attire" not going out in public wearing less.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
This has been discussed here many times. It depends on where you live and how far you take it. When I lived in Southern California and had a carry permit, I wore 5.11 pants (or shorts) all the time, usually with a Hawaiian shirt, and nobody ever said to me, "Are you carrying a gun?"

I wore the same type of outfit here in So Utah to our local rodeo and stood there filming with a video camera for at least 45 minutes with a LEO standing 10 feet behind me. He never said a word. Nobody cares.

Here in Southern Utah, so many people carry weapons that nobody seems to give it a second thought. At my wife's quilting guild monthly meeting a woman held up a quilting bag she had made in which she had included a pocket for her carry pistol and explained what it did. Nobody expressed outrage or even frowned and there were over 80 women in the room.
So I think you're missing my point. I know most people don't care I'm not worried about them. I'm worried about the people who do care.

I've had people try to take my gun three times while I was at work and I've come to the conclusion the same guy that's willing to try to snatch my gun when I'm in uniform and I'm wearing body armor and I've got handcuffs and I've got OC spray and I've got a radio right there on my belt and I've got a gun probably isn't going to hesitate if he notices that I'm walking around with a concealed handgun when I'm not at work.

I also pointed out in my original post is that I guarantee that you are around people everyday that are paying attention and you don't pick up on it because you think nobody cares. You know the same people that saw the Handcuff key on my key ring and asked me "Are you a cop?" Because they knew what to look for and they knew what they were looking at.

Like I said before predicating your level of concealment or the effort that you put into it on "no one cares" is stupid.

When I worked for the city I was surrounded by people who were rabidly anti gun. A couple of them wouldn't think twice about calling somebody in because they didn't think it was appropriate for anyone to be carrying a gun. I actually have a friend that I went to HighSchool with that got on Facebook all in a dither one morning because one of her neighbors walked out of his house with an uncased AR and put it in the back of his truck in Arizona she called the cops on the guy because nobody needs to walk around with a gun like that nobody needs to have a gun like that in the back of their car.

I would bet you that that guy doesn't even know who called the police on him. That's why I try to stay off people's radar
 

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I think you might be overthinking it all.
I keep a low profile too, but it is clearly different from that of the OP. I thought it once and had vener had to revisit it,

1. I have my gun on my person or next to me 24/7 so it will be where I need it if I ever need it. Guns not allowed means I am not allowed. Only exception is when I must visit a government building for personal business.
2. I would not try to circumvent “no gun” stipulations in anything I might contract for. No guns means no deal.
3. I do not tell people I carry a gun, but, if asked, I tell them the truth.
4. If asked. Why I carry a gun my answer is simple: In case I need it. If they ask why I might need it I suggest they follow the news reports of shootings, violent crime, and home invasions to get a good fix on the why of it.
5. My PA and AZ licenses allow me to carry in all but 11 states. I do not go to any of those eleven states.
6. I have only two handguns. One is for very deep concealment the other is for all other needs. I carry OWB preferred and IWB when OWB presents a concealment issue which is rare.
7. When I leave one of my two guns unattended I take it down and stash the barrel in a hiding place so it is safe.
8. I do not own or wear any clothing that relates to guns.
9. I do not open carry except if I am hiking.
10. I stay true to the above.
 

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I like looking for pocket clips, like you have with most knives nowadays.
Not everyone who carries a knife carries a gun, but just about everyone who carries a gun also carries a knife. The knife clips are often times easier to spot than the gun.
Clips from knives tear up the lip of my pockets. So, pocket knives go inside pockets now. Another good reason to no wear them showing.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I like looking for pocket clips, like you have with most knives nowadays.
Not everyone who carries a knife carries a gun, but just about everyone who carries a gun also carries a knife. The knife clips are often times easier to spot than the gun.
One thing that I have noticed is almost a dead giveaway is a flashlight. I can't think of a single time that I've seen somebody that was carrying the gun that wasn't carrying a flashlight. I realize it's not the same thing but some of the cops around here carry 3 or 4 flashlights. I carry two at work
 

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Clips from knives tear up the lip of my pockets. So, pocket knives go inside pockets now. Another good reason to no wear them showing.
I modify them, especially cold steel knife clips. I take the clip off the knife, sand down the area on the knife that the clip comes in contact with, and then bend the clip slightly to reduce the tension on it.What you get is a knife that stays put, but doesn't tear up the lip of your pocket, and draws fast and easy.
 

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One thing that I have noticed is almost a dead giveaway is a flashlight. I can't think of a single time that I've seen somebody that was carrying the gun that wasn't carrying a flashlight. I realize it's not the same thing but some of the cops around here carry 3 or 4 flashlights. I carry two at work
I don't carry a flashlight. If I'm carrying a pistol IWB I don't let the clip(s) show. If I'm front pocket carrying, a little .380 just looks like a cellphone if anybody even looks. I try not to be obvious, but don't worry too much about it. I'm not gonna dress like I'm "tacticool" or look like I'm wearing a gunny sack and super baggy pants. Glock or NRA hats, bumper stickers, "Guncentric" logo type t-shirts? No thanks. When I'm playing music onstage I carry a .380 in a back pocket wallet holster that is pretty much completely deep concealed. I live in a fairly liberal college-town area, so don't want to draw undue attention to myself.

Anybody else is free to dress any way they want to.
 

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So I think you're missing my point. I know most people don't care I'm not worried about them. I'm worried about the people who do care.

I've had people try to take my gun three times while I was at work and I've come to the conclusion the same guy that's willing to try to snatch my gun when I'm in uniform and I'm wearing body armor and I've got handcuffs and I've got OC spray and I've got a radio right there on my belt and I've got a gun probably isn't going to hesitate if he notices that I'm walking around with a concealed handgun when I'm not at work.

I also pointed out in my original post is that I guarantee that you are around people everyday that are paying attention and you don't pick up on it because you think nobody cares. You know the same people that saw the Handcuff key on my key ring and asked me "Are you a cop?" Because they knew what to look for and they knew what they were looking at.

Like I said before predicating your level of concealment or the effort that you put into it on "no one cares" is stupid.

When I worked for the city I was surrounded by people who were rabidly anti gun. A couple of them wouldn't think twice about calling somebody in because they didn't think it was appropriate for anyone to be carrying a gun. I actually have a friend that I went to HighSchool with that got on Facebook all in a dither one morning because one of her neighbors walked out of his house with an uncased AR and put it in the back of his truck in Arizona she called the cops on the guy because nobody needs to walk around with a gun like that nobody needs to have a gun like that in the back of their car.

I would bet you that that guy doesn't even know who called the police on him. That's why I try to stay off people's radar
You asked what other people think. I gave you my opinion. We disagree. End of story.
 

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My neighbors and many places in town have seen me open carry so I guess I spend my time not thinking much about it. This is Wyoming, real Wyoming, not Jackson hole. Sounds like you go to great lengths to be an invisible person which is your prerogative just a waste of time to me. If I had to spend that much time thinking about it and scanning everyone else for flashlights and such I would probably just skip carrying. I stay concealed most places where I travel but, not so much on home turf. You asked what we think.
 

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All of the above is critically dependent upon the environment in which one lives.

In the liberal progressive bastions of this nation my truck alone would probably trigger 13.3 bazillion meltdowns and assorted panicked calls to the FBI, NSA, CIA, ICE, CBP, SHP and local police.

Here?

Not so much.

Disappearing into the masses of sniveling scaredy-cats may be part of our problem now. Those that don't understand guns, or the people that own them, may be swayed by the anti-gun crowd more easily if they do not know anyone with guns. Denial and acceptance is easier if not confronted with reality?

I'm just thinking out loud here.

It is a lot easier to convince people that certain specified behaviors or actions are "outside" societal norms if they in fact never see or experience said behaviors or actions. Once those behaviors or actions are "outside" said norms, it is easier to vilify those behaviors or actions. Right?

That is why identity politics is such a powerful weapon and so subject to abuse.

I do not wear any of the typical gun garb myself. I blend in with most of the old folks here other than a few distinguishing items. Having said that, no one doubts where I stand, and I am fine with that.

If I lived somewhere else, I might act differently, but as I prefaced my comments above, "all of the above is critically dependent upon the environment in which one lives."

Luckily, I just don't need to think about stuff like that very often. Perhaps when I travel to enemy territory. :ticking:
 

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Clips from knives tear up the lip of my pockets. So, pocket knives go inside pockets now. Another good reason to no wear them showing.
I grind the clips off my carry folders. Not only do clips tear stuff up, the knife is harder to deploy when clipped to a pocket, at least in my experience.
 

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I see people carrying guns all the time
Are these sightings confirmed by actually seeing a gun, or surmised based on appearance or actions?

My impression is the number of people actually carrying is quite small. And yes, I do look for all those tells. When I scan around me I discretely look at hands, waists, and for who is watching other people. Very seldom do I see someone who is obviously carrying (butt of gun visible, belt clips, printing, etc.). I also know a number of non-gun guys who wear 5.11 stuff, just because it's more durable than other clothes and can be bought at the PX right next to the flimsy clothes and whenever it's on sale they snag it.

At my wife's quilting guild monthly meeting a woman held up a quilting bag she had made in which she had included a pocket for her carry pistol and explained what it did. Nobody expressed outrage or even frowned and there were over 80 women in the room.
Sir, you win the internet for the day.

The world needs more blaster packing quilters.

I firmly believe that, but just saying it makes me smile. Seriously, try saying "the world needs more blaster packing quilters" without smiling; it's not possible. :)
 

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Dress like everyone else.

Wear the holster and gun you want, and dress to conceal.

Pretty simple, actually.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Are these sightings confirmed by actually seeing a gun, or surmised based on appearance or actions?
I would say 80% of them are confirmed. Either because they're wearing a skin tight t-shirt over a Glock or I saw the bottom of the holster or because of my job I get to ask them right before I tell them concealed weapons are prohibited on these premises sir I'm going to have to ask you to take it out and put it back in your car. Also, even if I don't see the gun if you've got those crossbreed clips on your belt I'm counting that as confirmed
 

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When I was contracting overseas, my companies 'uniform' included the 511 britches. I didn't like them at all. They wore out too quickly in the crotch and knees, the hip pockets were too small for any real use, and looking the 'tacti-cool' part didn't sit well with me....still doesn't. I giggled at 'those guys' when I was active duty. I ponied up and got some stuff from Duluth Trading. My project heads got over it and my guys eventually went with the 'blended-in' styles. (....and their underwear is the BEST)

Back here in the real world, I'm rocking more of the 'high-drag-low-speed' dad bod and defiantly dress the part. If you see, or think you see, my sidearm, well bless your heart. If any of the 'tacti-cool' folks wanna teach me how to hold my grip or change my stance at the range, I let 'em talk then invite them to go away.

I have two lines of thinking regarding carrying and my environment. One is to just be me, the old(er) fart doing his thing and nobody sees a thing. The other is to make it so everybody sees me....with or without any tacti-cool stuff on.
 
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