[cmb]

So I was at the bowling pin range this week and fired some of my self defence pistols. Nothing like watching things fly off a table!

Notice some interesting things:

With P32, hits well but if you hit the pin in the fat section it will only wiggle it takes the second shot to knock it down.

With PF9 one shot knocks them down

With 45 one shot knocks them off the table

With 357 Mag one shot knocks it off the table further with more uumph

not sure what all this means, I know I wouldn't want to be hit with any of the above and if I had my choice to use any against someone else, I would choose the last two... at least from the pin perspective!

Just thought I'd share...

 

[rstrainii]

I am with you on that one. I like the 45, I always hear about knock down power but I dont think that knock down power refers to knocking a person off thier feet. How I see it is the shock to the system and wound cavity. IMHO I think the larger the caliber the more Trauma and instead of knock down power I think of stopping power. But then again a well placed shot from anything can stop the threat.

 

[RmScadd]

Nice info, thanks

 

[Jim Macklin]

F=MxA

E=1/2MxV^2

E=MC^2 OK that isn't useful with guns, yet. It does mean that Kirk will never be able to tell Scotty to beam him up. The energy required to tum energy into matter for one human is about 1500 H bombs worth.

Momentum=MxV

Big bullets transfer more momentum to bowling pins. Fast bullets in liquids [humans are 80+% liquid] cause hydrostatic shock when the pressure wave is supersonic.

Horse power added a time factor.. so a .223 bullet that is stopped with 2" of penetration releases more HP than the same bullet that does 16" but the effect of that energy depends on what it does to nerves and tissue. If a vest stops a bullet and it doesn't cut nerves and vessels, it may just be a punch and a shock, with no lasting effect. If a bullet cuts the right [wrong] vessel you may not notice much at all until you die in 10 minutes with your lungs full of all your blood. And if that person was trying to kill you, they will.
So bigger bullets that stop the action with both lots of tissue damage, lots of energy transfer are what is needed for self-defense. For murder, a 1/2" utility knife or a .22 CB cap will do.

 

[kpw]

That's a good example of expended energy. My '06 would do a number on a bowling pin but it hasn't knocked a deer over yet. Kills them pretty dead though! :wink:

 

[BikerRN]

With 45 one shot knocks them off the table

With 357 Mag one shot knocks it off the table further with more uumph

In a non-scientific way that correlates with the posted street results of the two calibers.

The .45 ACP is known as a good "manstopper" when using hollowpoint ammo, and will get the job done with hardball if that's all you have. The .357 Magnum, with 125 Grain JHP's or SJHP's has been known as "The King of the Street" for years and no round has bested it from what I've read.

John Farnam said, "The only reason people put up with the recoil and muzzle blast of the .357 Magnum is because of it's awesome stopping power." It is what I consider the almost perfect round, but like any round, has had it's failures too.

Any handgun round can stop or kill. Some just do it better than others.

Biker

 

[TerriLi]

Now Im curious, if a .45 and .357 both knock the pins off the table, what would .454 or a .500 do to the pin?

 

[boscobeans]

Now Im curious, if a .45 and .357 both knock the pins off the table, what would .454 or a .500 do to the pin?

Maybe plastic coated toothpicks ???

bosco

 

[cmb]

me too!

Now Im curious, if a .45 and .357 both knock the pins off the table, what would .454 or a .500 do to the pin?

I wish I had one to test!

45LC from a judge does a good job of putting them down, those pins are pretty durable. I would love to 454 Casull them and see hwat happens...

 

[OldVet]

And that's kinda the reason I bought a .45 auto instead of a 9mm. [That comes later! ;-) ]

 

[rolyat63]

I am with you on that one. I like the 45, I always hear about knock down power but I dont think that knock down power refers to knocking a person off thier feet. How I see it is the shock to the system and wound cavity. IMHO I think the larger the caliber the more Trauma and instead of knock down power I think of stopping power. But then again a well placed shot from anything can stop the threat.

Yeah the hollywood knock down scenes are not what really happens. Its a physics thing. The engery to launch a projectile fast enough to create the necessary momentum to physically knockdown an average human would by defintion knock down the shooter as well.

 

[hogdaddy]

That's a good example of expended energy. My '06 would do a number on a bowling pin but it hasn't knocked a deer over yet. Kills them pretty dead though! :wink:

NECK SHOT my friend will knock em down

H/D

 

[Cuda66]

Now Im curious, if a .45 and .357 both knock the pins off the table, what would .454 or a .500 do to the pin?

A 440gr, hardcast .500 S&W round will throw a bowling pin about 20 feet.

The pin stays together fairly well, if it's new; a shot up pin--particularly if cold (think shooting in MN in January) will be blown to flinders.

BTW--the same round will also fully penetrate a 6' diameter round haybale and land, very nicely, on the ground about 3' beyond the bale...(not after a bowling pin, however).

 

[TerriLi]

Thanks Cuda. Curiosity is a beautiful thing.

 

[ntkb]

I drop deer in thier tracks with 223 70gr sp 9 out of 10 times they drop like a sack of potatos when placed in the neck, tracking blood trails is for bow hunters.

 

[RebelRabbi]

Very Impressive

E=1/2MxV^2

E=MC^2 OK that isn't useful with guns, yet. It does mean that Kirk will never be able to tell Scotty to beam him up. The energy required to tum energy into matter for one human is about 1500 H bombs worth.

Momentum=MxV

Big bullets transfer more momentum to bowling pins. Fast bullets in liquids [humans are 80+% liquid] cause hydrostatic shock when the pressure wave is supersonic.

Horse power added a time factor.. so a .223 bullet that is stopped with 2" of penetration releases more HP than the same bullet that does 16" but the effect of that energy depends on what it does to nerves and tissue. If a vest stops a bullet and it doesn't cut nerves and vessels, it may just be a punch and a shock, with no lasting effect. If a bullet cuts the right [wrong] vessel you may not notice much at all until you die in 10 minutes with your lungs full of all your blood. And if that person was trying to kill you, they will.
So bigger bullets that stop the action with both lots of tissue damage, lots of energy transfer are what is needed for self-defense. For murder, a 1/2" utility knife or a .22 CB cap will do.

This is a very impressive post. Momentum is often overlooked in discussions about Stopping Power. The 45 accomplishes it's mission by Momentum, The 357 does the same thing through Rapid Energy Transfer which includes Hydrostatic Shock. I have shot game with both these rounds. The Heavy 45 / 44's often cause the animal to buckle, like being punched. The 357 125 grain usually creates an explosive effect. Nothing is 100% of course.

Which one is better? Crushed with a Sledgehammer or Slashed open with a Chain Saw? DRD / Dead Right Dare either way.:gah:

 

[kpw]

NECK SHOT my friend will knock em down

H/D

Yup, that kills them but they usually just drop. They never seem to get knocked backwards.

 

[Majorlk]

NECK SHOT my friend will knock em down

H/D

It doesn't "knock them down"; they collapse from a CNS shot. Not the same thing.

 

[RETSUPT99]

So I was at the bowling pin range this week and fired some of my self defense pistols. Nothing like watching things fly off a table!

Notice some interesting things:

With P32, hits well but if you hit the pin in the fat section it will only wiggle it takes the second shot to knock it down.

With PF9 one shot knocks them down

With 45 one shot knocks them off the table

With 357 Mag one shot knocks it off the table further with more uumph

not sure what all this means, I know I wouldn't want to be hit with any of the above and if I had my choice to use any against someone else, I would choose the last two... at least from the pin perspective!

Just thought I'd share...

Sounds like a 'redneck' calibration chart to me!:yup::blink::image035::wave:

 

[Archie]

One might try picking up a bowling pin and throwing it. I bet I can throw a bowling pin farther than most handguns can 'knock' one.

Which is a discussion of apples and oranges. Be careful of comparisons that aren't really comparisons.