Laser Legality

2852 Views 32 Replies 29 Participants Last post by lucasoil4u, Mar 27, 2013

mossyoak

Discussion Starter · Mar 19, 2013

I have been considering getting the Viridian C5L for my S&W M&P .40c concealed carry gun. Mostly for deterrence and total effectiveness in any situation. I live in Maine which is a Castle Doctrine state and has a stand-your-ground law. But I have heard from a few people saying that it's not a good idea to have a laser due to the fact that "you know exactly where your round is going and if lethal forced is used it was intended for that reason". And in return could back fire in court. Any thoughts or personal experiences?

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Alex_C

· #2 · Mar 19, 2013

mossyoak said:
it's not a good idea to have a laser due to the fact that "you know exactly where your round is going and if lethal forced is used it was intended for that reason".

So these "people" think that your gun should never be used in a lethal manner, and that you should have no idea where your rounds are going?

Have they been listening to Joe Biden or something?

If you want the laser, get it. If it helps you, great!

Though I sometimes wonder about the "deterrence" thing that a lot of people talk about with regard to lasers. It may well be valid, but to me it smacks of the "rack your pump shotgun to scare the burglar away" stories...

Reactions: 5

xXxplosive

· #3 · Mar 19, 2013

Might as well remove all sights from your gun also.................IMO.......rediculous.....but a Lawyer is capable of anything.....even getting elected to office.

Reactions: 4

high pockets

· #4 · Mar 19, 2013

That's like saying that whenever you shoot, you are shooting to kill, when we all know we are merely shooting to stop the threat of physical harm.

Reactions: 1

SIXTO

· #5 · Mar 19, 2013

Dont buy a laser or a gun. Buy training first.

Reactions: 5

ccw9mm

· #6 · Mar 19, 2013 (Edited)

mossyoak said:
I live in Maine which is a Castle Doctrine state and has a stand-your-ground law. But I have heard from a few people saying that it's not a good idea to have a laser due to the fact that "you know exactly where your round is going and if lethal forced is used it was intended for that reason". And in return could back fire in court.

If in your state the statutes on use-of-force support the use of deadly force, then the use of a firearm in defense of your life in such circumstances is justifiable and supported by the law.

Seems clear to me that any tool which helps you reduce risk of failures of accuracy is a solid improvement in safety for bystanders, reducing the chance for rounds to miss the target. Hard to argue that's a bad thing.

Of course, anything that increases the effectiveness of any deadly force you do happen to be forced to employ could be argued to be a bad thing I suppose. But IMO the law's on your side if such things are on the books.

Personally, I myself wouldn't worry about it. Presume that any attack against your life which you defend with deadly force is likely to be vigorously rejected by those seeking to "close the case" and go after the person left standing, if only because that person's left standing. Not because you were wrong in your actions.

If still concerned, speak with a competent and successful attorney regarding the justifiability of such actions in self-defense cases.

Ditto on the training suggestion. It'll be far more useful to you, in the long run. And you might even find a laser isn't a cure-all for poor marksmanship.

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whoppo

· #7 · Mar 19, 2013

Hello and welcome fellow Mainer!

A laser is simply an aux. sighting tool and should I be in a position where I felt it necessary to draw and fire my weapon it would be with the intent to stop the perceived threat in the fastest and most permanent way possible. Target acquired... Target down. If a laser helps me do this more efficiently then it is worth the expense of purchase and time spent training with it.

BTW: yes, most of my personal defense weapons have lights and/or lasers, including the one that's one my person right now.

65108

· #8 · Mar 19, 2013

Alex_C said:
So these "people" think that your gun should never be used in a lethal manner, and that you should have no idea where your rounds are going?

Have they been listening to Joe Biden or something?

If you want the laser, get it. If it helps you, great!

Though I sometimes wonder about the "deterrence" thing that a lot of people talk about with regard to lasers. It may well be valid, but to me it smacks of the "rack your pump shotgun to scare the burglar away" stories...

^^^What he said.^^^

Wherever you're getting your information from, find a new source.

Personally, I think lasers are a waste of money.

MJB_17

· #9 · Mar 19, 2013

That "information" is a crock...lasers are good tools if used properly and if they are reliable. Trust me, not all lasers are created equal. I have a Streamlight TLR-4, the laser loses zero after about 10 rounds fired, the TLR-2 is known to be pretty much unshakable. As far as Viridian, I have seen mixed to generally negative reviews of their products, if I was going to go with a laser for an M&P then I'd go with the Crimson Trace grips. They are pretty expensive ($300) but are very well made. Another option is a light/laser combo from Streamlight or Surefire, again it will be over $200 but it is well made.

GraySkies

· #10 · Mar 19, 2013

mossyoak said:
to have a laser due to the fact that "you know exactly where your round is going and if lethal forced is used it was intended for that reason".

I like to think that when I use my normal three dot sights I'm also certain of where the bullet is going. Probably not true at my skill level (still working on it) but I like to think that

Either way, laser or not, I'd still be aiming for COM and hoping it stopped my attacker.

G-man*

· #11 · Mar 19, 2013

To echo Sixto's sage advise; don't get a laser, or a gun until you have some FoF training that will give you a unique perspective about what will work for you, and just as importantly, what doesn't.

USM1976

· #12 · Mar 19, 2013

If lasers are such a sticky subject then why do police in some areas or special details carry them ? If ever questioned as to why you have a laser, just tell the person it is a low light aiming device just like regular sites are daytime devices. Simple to me...

Reactions: 1

Exacto

· #13 · Mar 19, 2013

Laser or no laser, a good prosecutor is going to make anything you say or do look very bad. I would ask an attorney about the laser. You shoot to stop the threat. No matter where the round goes, you have no way of knowing wheather it's going to be a lethal shot or not. It comes to mind that if they're saying the gun or the use of it shouldn't be potentially lethal, why not just leave the ammo out of it.

G-man*

· #14 · Mar 19, 2013

All a prosecutor can do is present the evidence. If the shooting was not justified per the elements of your respective state statues that govern such, it doesn't matter if you had a laser or a chem light stick, you are a had lad.

Reactions: 2

StevePVB

· #15 · Mar 19, 2013

I guess we are supposed to do like Wyatt Earp and shoot the gun out of their hand. Never ever think about actually stopping the thug.

Mike1956

· #16 · Mar 19, 2013

SIXTO said:
Dont buy a laser or a gun. Buy training first.

This.
And get some friends who know what they are talking about.

Reactions: 2

.45acpguy

· #17 · Mar 19, 2013

Consider the source of your "advice" before reaching a decision on whether to use it or not.

FYI, I actually had a friend who hunts rebuke me for my EDC being a .45acp--because "it's not fair." If I ever have to pull my gun in a self-defense scenario, the last thing I want to be is "fair;" I intend to stop the threat.

Reactions: 1

skeetsak

· #18 · Mar 20, 2013

Unless you fire a round at point blank range into a person's head, I don’t think you would have trouble. one shot one kill is different than an execution.

tokerblue

· #19 · Mar 20, 2013

You can always say that you couldn't figure out how to turn the laser on at the time of the shooting.

skeetsak

· #20 · Mar 20, 2013

tokerblue said:
You can always say that you couldn't figure out how to turn the laser on at the time of the shooting.

or take it off

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