Laser Sights
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1,298 Posts
They have their place, but the problem with them can be that people become overly dependent on them and are no longer able to shoot well with iron sights or by point shooting.
As long as one remembers to practice other methods of hitting the target it's fine to have a laser on your EDC.
(for the record, none of my guns currently have a laser on them)
As long as one remembers to practice other methods of hitting the target it's fine to have a laser on your EDC.
(for the record, none of my guns currently have a laser on them)
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5,247 Posts
I have a CT laser grip on my EDC (G23) which was primarly used as the 'bedside' gun until I 'put it in the carry rotation'. I learned more about trigger control at the range with the laser than all the teaching I had prior. I like 'em and it gives me an extra 'deminsion'. Lasers do have a purpose and application, it's just very limited in my case.
TX-JB said it first. Don't rely on a laser to take place of the sights, espically in a situation where you 'might' have to employ your sidearm. Under the sudden stress of fight, you won't look for the red dot anyway and if you do it'll cost you time you might not have.
A cop buddy put a laser on his issue sidearm right after he got on the SWAT/SRT team. He loved it because all of a sudden not nearly as many thugs took off running on him when they saw that red dot on them coming from his Glock vice his big yellow Dept. issue taser. He HATES runners!
I'm not a cop though and I ain't running after anybody if I don't have to. Practice point shooting under stress and I'll wager your chances of surviving a fight increase more than just relying on the laser.
TX-JB said it first. Don't rely on a laser to take place of the sights, espically in a situation where you 'might' have to employ your sidearm. Under the sudden stress of fight, you won't look for the red dot anyway and if you do it'll cost you time you might not have.
A cop buddy put a laser on his issue sidearm right after he got on the SWAT/SRT team. He loved it because all of a sudden not nearly as many thugs took off running on him when they saw that red dot on them coming from his Glock vice his big yellow Dept. issue taser. He HATES runners!
I'm not a cop though and I ain't running after anybody if I don't have to. Practice point shooting under stress and I'll wager your chances of surviving a fight increase more than just relying on the laser.
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51 Posts
The only people I ever hear badmouthing lasers are people who don't have them. <G>
Last Christmas my wife upgraded my longtime EDC M36 to an airweight M638. Love the gun, hated the sights. I was reasonably accurate with the 36, but the 638 hits in the next county. With a sight radius of 3 inches you can't expect much.
The Crimson Trace laser gives you a sight radius of whatever the distance is to your target and is faster to acquire than iron sights. Easier on my creaky old near vision, too.
The thing about giving away your position is hokey, too. A green laser (or a muzzle flash) will pinpoint your position, but not a red laser unless you're in smoke or fog. The CT works fine in bright sunlight out to the realistic range of a J frame of about 50 feet or so.
They've been 100% reliable for me - I've never even heard of them failing on anyone as they gradually get dimmer so you know well in advance when the battery needs to be replaced.
My only complaint about CT is that they don't make one for my 908.
Get'em, you'll like'em.
Last Christmas my wife upgraded my longtime EDC M36 to an airweight M638. Love the gun, hated the sights. I was reasonably accurate with the 36, but the 638 hits in the next county. With a sight radius of 3 inches you can't expect much.
The Crimson Trace laser gives you a sight radius of whatever the distance is to your target and is faster to acquire than iron sights. Easier on my creaky old near vision, too.
The thing about giving away your position is hokey, too. A green laser (or a muzzle flash) will pinpoint your position, but not a red laser unless you're in smoke or fog. The CT works fine in bright sunlight out to the realistic range of a J frame of about 50 feet or so.
They've been 100% reliable for me - I've never even heard of them failing on anyone as they gradually get dimmer so you know well in advance when the battery needs to be replaced.
My only complaint about CT is that they don't make one for my 908.
Get'em, you'll like'em.
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5,252 Posts
Here's some of my thoughts on lasers:
Cornered Cat
I hope that helps.
Biker
Also, Pax has written a beautiful response in favor of lasers. I suggest that you search her post and try to find it. She may also have something on her site regarding lasers.
Cornered Cat
I hope that helps.
Biker
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145,389 Posts
I have said this before but, I'll say it again.
There are real and genuine advantages to a laser for some folks with certain vision problems since in order to use the laser unit correctly - you do not look at (or focus on) your firearm or your firearm sights at all. :nono:
You only look at and focus on your intended target. :yup:
If you are wearing "corrective lenses" for nearsightedness - you'll probably not be able to focus on your front gun sight while still keeping your eyeglasses on.
So since your "far" vision is already corrected by your eyeglasses...that is the only place that you'll need to look while using a laser - because basically all a laser does is move your front sight out (in the form of a red dot) directly onto the intended target.
I could "go on" but, you get the idea I'm sure.
There are real and genuine advantages to a laser for some folks with certain vision problems since in order to use the laser unit correctly - you do not look at (or focus on) your firearm or your firearm sights at all. :nono:
You only look at and focus on your intended target. :yup:
If you are wearing "corrective lenses" for nearsightedness - you'll probably not be able to focus on your front gun sight while still keeping your eyeglasses on.
So since your "far" vision is already corrected by your eyeglasses...that is the only place that you'll need to look while using a laser - because basically all a laser does is move your front sight out (in the form of a red dot) directly onto the intended target.
I could "go on" but, you get the idea I'm sure.
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1,079 Posts
I tried them on two guns and hated them:
1. They give you tunnel vision; you start only concentrating on that little red dot and nothing else around or in front of you
2. Electronics/battery powered; can fail at the worst time
3. It's hard to switch back and forth from laser to fixed sights
4. Can possibly give away your location to the BG
As you can see, I'm a big fan of traditional sights and am even moving away from that to more of a defensive no sights, instinctive point-shooting method. IMO, they are expensive toys.
1. They give you tunnel vision; you start only concentrating on that little red dot and nothing else around or in front of you
2. Electronics/battery powered; can fail at the worst time
3. It's hard to switch back and forth from laser to fixed sights
4. Can possibly give away your location to the BG
As you can see, I'm a big fan of traditional sights and am even moving away from that to more of a defensive no sights, instinctive point-shooting method. IMO, they are expensive toys.
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356 Posts
Well, I've been carrying every day for almost 35 years and training in point shooting for about 40 and I got my first laser about a month ago...and love it.
I get a little irritated with people who say "they cause you to do...". They don't cause you to do anything...you can choose to misuse them and choose to ignore your training in other areas if you wish...or, as someone else said, you can just have another tool in the toolbox.
I wouldn't recommend someone who is new to carry training with them exclusively, or even primarily, but there are times when they certainly can be an advantage (especially when firing from cover).
They are also very good (again, as someone else has mentioned) for those of us who have reached an age where our eyesight is not exactly what it once was...especially those of us who wear bifocals or trifocals.
Used correctly, I can also see them being an invaluable tool in point-shoot training.
Like just about everything else, the trick is how they are used.
I get a little irritated with people who say "they cause you to do...". They don't cause you to do anything...you can choose to misuse them and choose to ignore your training in other areas if you wish...or, as someone else said, you can just have another tool in the toolbox.
I wouldn't recommend someone who is new to carry training with them exclusively, or even primarily, but there are times when they certainly can be an advantage (especially when firing from cover).
They are also very good (again, as someone else has mentioned) for those of us who have reached an age where our eyesight is not exactly what it once was...especially those of us who wear bifocals or trifocals.
Used correctly, I can also see them being an invaluable tool in point-shoot training.
Like just about everything else, the trick is how they are used.
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22,908 Posts
Well, that only would make sense, wouldn't it? I don't go and buy cracker jacks because I don't like them either.
Anyway, I'll just say there is no substitute for proper training in pistol combat.
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1,849 Posts
Well said and I agree totally. Its another tool that may help save your life. I have been shooting handguns for 35+ years and I can shoot as well or better than most, and have shot competitively for many years. As far as I am concerned anyone who says a laser sight is worthless or anti-productive has no idea what they are talking about and is giving worthless ill-advised advice. If you are knocked off your feet, have to shoot from a prone postion, unusal stance or position, or maybe injured they may be the only way to get the gun on target. Again another tool, not a subsitute for good shooting fundimentals.
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2,637 Posts
I agree with you Pirate, I have one and what a difference it makes for aged eyes. I have shot handguns for only 30+ years :tongue:, and on handguns with lousy miniature sights like my Ruger LCP, the CTC laser really helps me a bunch. I still use the sights on my Glocks and other handguns, and I am no longer considering lasers for them as I can still hit the proverbial broad side of the barn with them.
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11,916 Posts
You may wish to review this poll. ~95% of folks who have actually used Crimson Trace lasers seem to like them.
http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbull...nt/92299-poll-users-crimson-trace-lasers.html
http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbull...nt/92299-poll-users-crimson-trace-lasers.html
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The difference is that I'm assuming you've actually tasted Cracker Jacks before forming your opinion!:tongue:
Most folks who say negative things about lasers are of the "I've never used one but here's why I don't like them..." variety.
:smile:
I really like my ArmaLaser a lot!!!
Here's why:
1. I'm on target faster.
2. I'm more accurate.
3. It's better and faster than iron sights in low light and especially in the dark.
4. I can shoot from almost any body position with either hand or both hands very accurately.
5. It's as fast as point shooting, but much more accurate.
6. My head doesn't have to be in line or level with the gun.
7. The laser requires only viewing the target and not the gun.
8. My arm, hand, and gun don’t have to be in a position that blocks vision around the target area.
9. I can see peripherally much better.
10. Wearing multi-focal eyeglasses requires acquiring the correct focal portion of the glasses as well as acquiring sight alignment and sight picture (I wear trifocals). Not necessary with the laser.
Also, with some multi-focal eyeglass wearers if the sights are in focus the target isn't or visa-versa.
11. The laser helps with trigger pull and natural pointing during dry fire and hot fire practice.
12. The gun prints less like a gun in pocket carry.
13. The iron sights are still there if you want them.
This is my review on the ArmaLaser:
The Kel-Tec Range :: View topic - Review of ArmaLaser on Kel-Tec P-3AT
Bobo
Here's why:
1. I'm on target faster.
2. I'm more accurate.
3. It's better and faster than iron sights in low light and especially in the dark.
4. I can shoot from almost any body position with either hand or both hands very accurately.
5. It's as fast as point shooting, but much more accurate.
6. My head doesn't have to be in line or level with the gun.
7. The laser requires only viewing the target and not the gun.
8. My arm, hand, and gun don’t have to be in a position that blocks vision around the target area.
9. I can see peripherally much better.
10. Wearing multi-focal eyeglasses requires acquiring the correct focal portion of the glasses as well as acquiring sight alignment and sight picture (I wear trifocals). Not necessary with the laser.
Also, with some multi-focal eyeglass wearers if the sights are in focus the target isn't or visa-versa.
11. The laser helps with trigger pull and natural pointing during dry fire and hot fire practice.
12. The gun prints less like a gun in pocket carry.
13. The iron sights are still there if you want them.
This is my review on the ArmaLaser:
The Kel-Tec Range :: View topic - Review of ArmaLaser on Kel-Tec P-3AT
Bobo
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22,908 Posts
Well, I'm not one of those folks. CT and other companies have sent me samples in the past when I was doing a lot more commercial work than I do now. I still have samples sitting in my work shop that I really need to put on fleabay or gunbroker... I've tried to like lasers, I've tried see the good. And there is a little good, but IMO, there is more hindrance than help on a defensive pistol. I've yet to see a serious shooter show up for a class with a laser installed. Those who do make it very apparent what basket they put their eggs in rather quickly.The difference is that I'm assuming you've actually tasted Cracker Jacks before forming your opinion!:tongue:
Most folks who say negative things about lasers are of the "I've never used one but here's why I don't like them..." variety.
:smile:
I could just as easily sit here and say that the people who defend lasers are doing nothing more than defending a purchase they made or that they don't know what they are doing etc, they need a crutch... whatever. Saying that the guys who don't like the lasers are x, y or z is a weak argument to say the least.
I'm not going to waste anymore time debating lasers. They are a gimmick designed to separate you from your money. If you like yours, thats great. More power to you. You certainly have the right to spend your money on what you want.
I choose to spend my money on ammo and first rate training on proven combat methods.
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11,916 Posts
Well, if you buy your laser online at Shooters Resource, you won't get separated from too much of your money!:wink:
As far as whether serious shooters use them - the military uses the infra-red versions to allow troops to shoot accurately while wearing night vision goggles. I would call them "serious shooters." The equivalent civilian application would be low light where you cannot see your sights, or firing from a position where you cannot line up the sights.
You can also find numerous reports online from LEOs who found them to be very useful pieces of gear. Serious shooters there too.
No one has said they replace training.
At least you tried them - I'll give you that!:smile:
As far as whether serious shooters use them - the military uses the infra-red versions to allow troops to shoot accurately while wearing night vision goggles. I would call them "serious shooters." The equivalent civilian application would be low light where you cannot see your sights, or firing from a position where you cannot line up the sights.
You can also find numerous reports online from LEOs who found them to be very useful pieces of gear. Serious shooters there too.
No one has said they replace training.
At least you tried them - I'll give you that!:smile:
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22,908 Posts
The versions and reasons the military uses them are a little different, and just because one is an LEO does not make him a serious shooter. Although he might be a shooter in a serious situation.
Not being able to line up sights; Yeah, I'll give lasers that. You might be able to reach around a corner, but the dot on your target and score. maybe. But your eyeballs need to be around that corner too.
Not being able to line up sights; Yeah, I'll give lasers that. You might be able to reach around a corner, but the dot on your target and score. maybe. But your eyeballs need to be around that corner too.
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1,678 Posts
My thoughts are mixed. If someone made a totally non-obtrusive laser activated by a non-obtrusive switch, then I'd be 100% on board. Maybe some day a manufacturer will build a laser into the sight or frame and put a switch on the trigger or grip lever, ala a safety, and give it some reliability.
I use a Crimson Trace grip laser. It is a well made product but the laser is blocked when my finger is off the trigger. I can see situations where a laser would be a great asset, especially in unaimed shots. Lasers scare the crap out of people too, which could be another unintended asset.
I use a Crimson Trace grip laser. It is a well made product but the laser is blocked when my finger is off the trigger. I can see situations where a laser would be a great asset, especially in unaimed shots. Lasers scare the crap out of people too, which could be another unintended asset.
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