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I know that a lot of police officers carry an LCP as a BUG these days and I wanted to toss out some concepts. Please honor my request to NOT have a caliber war in this thread! There are plenty of those elsewhere and that's not my intention.

Here's the thing that intrigues me. If a situation is so dire that you have to resort to a backup gun, would you want that to be a .380? Now, if you're comfortable carrying a .380 as a primary, I respect that. It's not for me, but I respect it. But again, if you wouldn't carry it as a primary, would you want to depend on it in a really bad situation? I understand the convenience factor like we've discussed in other threads, like a quick run to the store, etc...., but I'm talking about a situation where there's a higher likelihood of actually needing it.

My next question is...do you think they'll ever make the LCP in 9mm? If they did and it was rated for continuous +p use, that might sell even better than the current version. I'm probably getting ridiculous now, but I'm wondering if .357 SIG could be done.

I know that Kahr has some really small guns in larger calibers but I'm curious as to why no other maker, or very few of them, offers the same.
 

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Couple of thoughts...

Shot placement is king; penetration is queen. A .380 pistol loaded with FMJ can be quite effective. Only hits to the vitals count - regardless of caliber.

As a BUG, you likely want something small and light - there is a limit to what you can carry without clanking or looking like a SWAT wannabe mall-ninja...

I don't carry a BUG. My back-up weapon is a knife. Only so much I can carry, especially in a suit.

For a LEO, a duty weapon with a sub-compact version as a BUG makes a whole lot of sense, since they can share magazines (such as a Glock 19 with a 26 as a BUG).
 

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Shot placement is king; penetration is queen. A .380 pistol loaded with FMJ can be quite effective. Only hits to the vitals count - regardless of caliber.
I agree, but that's not really what I'm reaching for. There are people who would never carry a .380 as a primary. For those people, what's the logic in the BUG being a .380, other than convenience?
 

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The answer to your last question is Kel Tec PF9 and other single stack mag. 9mm.

MY wife and I carry a P3AT and one spare mag and feel very well armed. We are not LEOs and not tactical operators however we are a effect team that works very well together. As to 380, we are comfortable with it and if the situation in our nation breaks down, and we feel the need we well both move up in caliber and the P3AT will be our BUG.
 

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I agree, but that's not really what I'm reaching for. There are people who would never carry a .380 as a primary. For those people, what's the logic in the BUG being a .380, other than convenience?
What if I were to flip it around and suggest that the .380 is my primary and the 9mm is my BUG?

Example: G19 is tucked under my shirt. LCP is in a wallet holster in my back pocket. BG on the street surpises me with a gun in my face, requesting my wallet. What do you think he's gonna get shot with first?

Of course the answer depends on the devil in the details. However, it's gonna be mighty tempting for me to reach for my 'wallet' and show him the repeated muzzle blast of the LCP on the way out.

'Just a thought... Who knows - maybe he shoots me first? These are just things that I think about...
 

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Well, in my mind a BUG is if either your primary has had a catastrophic malfunction, or you lost control of your primary/can't get to it. BUGs like the P3AT are so common because they can just be worn with the clip in the pocket, or an ankle rig (as can a J-frame).

I actually would prefer my j-frame as a bug, because in my mind, it would be less prone to having problems being in a pocket or ankle rig all day, but that is probably mostly mental.

But the purpose of the BUG should be to get you out of the situation so you can get your primary back into action, and in most cases would only be deployed at contact range, so you are just sticking it in the BG's belly and unloading anyways (or his eye). Would I like having another full size 1911 to back up my primary 1911, yes, but due to weight and concealment issues that's not always possible.

Just my thoughts, and FWIW, I usually just have a knife, or rarely my J-frame as a BUG.
 

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I think it's like the ".22 in hand is better than .45 in truck". If your choice is between a .380 BUG or no BUG than I go with the .380. Not being a LEO I don't expect to run into trouble on any given day, but I carry so that I can have a chance in an unexpected situation. Similarly I don't expect to face a situation where I'll need a BUG, but I will throw my LCP in my pocket so that if I do need a second weapon at least I have something.
 

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My brother who is LEO just got his LCP he has a Glock .45 for his main and the LCP as BUG.

I dont see why a .380 could not get the job done if he need it.
 

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If you carry a small belly gun as your main carry, you may want to consider a good lock blade folder as a back up. Even a small tactical flashlight can be used to good effect in a up close and personal fight.

As long as we have RULE OF LAW working and 911 works and LE is on the way even if they take a few minutes, I do not know that I will need a massive amount of fire power. My 380 is a get off me gun and my lock blade folder is a stay off me knife, while my small tactical flashlight is to back both these. Been thanking about some good quality pepper spray as a non lethal option.

My hope is; I never have to use any of these things.
 

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I know that a lot of police officers carry an LCP as a BUG these days and I wanted to toss out some concepts. Please honor my request to NOT have a caliber war in this thread! There are plenty of those elsewhere and that's not my intention.

Here's the thing that intrigues me. If a situation is so dire that you have to resort to a backup gun, would you want that to be a .380? Now, if you're comfortable carrying a .380 as a primary, I respect that. It's not for me, but I respect it. But again, if you wouldn't carry it as a primary, would you want to depend on it in a really bad situation? I understand the convenience factor like we've discussed in other threads, like a quick run to the store, etc...., but I'm talking about a situation where there's a higher likelihood of actually needing it.

My next question is...do you think they'll ever make the LCP in 9mm? If they did and it was rated for continuous +p use, that might sell even better than the current version. I'm probably getting ridiculous now, but I'm wondering if .357 SIG could be done.

I know that Kahr has some really small guns in larger calibers but I'm curious as to why no other maker, or very few of them, offers the same.

They do make the LCP in 9mm, it's called a Rohrbaugh
 

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.380 is not my first choice as a BUG, but there are times when only my LCP will do. It's better than nothing. I prefer (and usually find a way) to carry my S&W 642 in .38+P as my BUG. Both are "up close" handguns, but the little .38's greater "make my day" factor is comforting.

-Seawolf
 

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I would carry a j-frame as a back-up when I was an LEO, regardless of my primary gun... I felt more comfortable with it in an ankle holster than a .380... Nothing to do with caliber, it was just comfort, for me... I also carried a NAA .22 revolver hidden in my vest as a last ditch gun...

Today, I carry a 642, when I carry a BUG...I don't currently own a .380, but wouldn't hesitate to carry an LCP if I had one...
 

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But the purpose of the BUG should be to get you out of the situation so you can get your primary back into action, and in most cases would only be deployed at contact range, so you are just sticking it in the BG's belly and unloading anyways (or his eye). Would I like having another full size 1911 to back up my primary 1911, yes, but due to weight and concealment issues that's not always possible.
Good comment. To run with this, I think most folks here understand that the small BUG is not for shooting thru car windshields. However, due to it's small size, it is the easiest thing to have handy and quickly bring in at close range on a BG's head/torso. If the BG has the drop on you, and unless you're Bob Munden (insert your favorite quick-draw hero here), it's going to be near suicide to lift up your shirt and pull your hand-cannon. I prefer to have a plan were every motion that I make is interpreted as complying with the BG, right up to the moment that he receives his third eye.

I carry a .380 in addition to a 9mm not because it is comfortable, but because it serves an entirely different function. I don't think of it as a BUG, but more as another tool that I might reach for first. :smile:
 

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Good comment. To run with this, I think most folks here understand that the small BUG is not for shooting thru car windshields. However, due to it's small size, it is the easiest thing to have handy and quickly bring in at close range on a BG's head/torso. If the BG has the drop on you, and unless your Bob Munden (insert your favorite quick-draw hero here), it's going to be near suicide to lift up your shirt and pull your hand-cannon. I prefer to have a plan were every motion that I make is interpreted as complying with the BG, right up to the moment that he receives his third eye.

I carry a .380 in addition to a 9mm not because it is comfortable, but because it serves an entirely different function. I don't think of it as a BUG, but more as another tool that I might reach for first. :smile:
+1 on both post in this thread. I'd add my 2 cents, but you've covered my thoughts on the BUG's appeal and its use IMO. 100% agreed, its deployment depends on the situation at hand and being a slower traveling 9mm has little effect on it's potency, if placed correctly and followed up with a couple more. :bier:

GBK
 

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They do make the LCP in 9mm, it's called a Rohrbaugh
The R9 is a good gun, if you can afford it. Some reports of it being picky about what ammo it will feed.

The 9mm is better than the .380...but is it three times better? The R9 is about $1000, while the LCP is out there for under $300. I'd rather get a LCP, a CT Laserguard, ammo, and a holster...and still have a bunch of money left over for training. IMHO.
 

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The R9 is a good gun, if you can afford it. Some reports of it being picky about what ammo it will feed.

The 9mm is better than the .380...but is it three times better? The R9 is about $1000, while the LCP is out there for under $300. I'd rather get a LCP, a CT Laserguard, ammo, and a holster...and still have a bunch of money left over for training. IMHO.

Or you could just get both! My R9 has never failed me. 124 fmj, 124 gold dots, and 147 gold dots all shoot perfect. The trigger on the Rohrbaugh puts the LCP to shame. Still no CT for the R9 yet.
 

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If I were to carry a BUG, I would have to consider the same caliber as my primary as the best choice and since Kahr makes their PM series in all up through 45 I would seriously entertain this. I am biased as I have a PM9….but same goes for Glocks…..especially in the G26 and G27.
 

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Or you could just get both! My R9 has never failed me. 124 fmj, 124 gold dots, and 147 gold dots all shoot perfect. The trigger on the Rohrbaugh puts the LCP to shame. Still no CT for the R9 yet.
Well, considering that I will find out in mid-January if I still have a job with my company (for the second time in 11 months!:frown:) I won't be buying any $1000 pocket pistols anytime soon. It's going to be another austere Christmas, that's for sure.

I actually tried pocket carry of my wife's LCP last evening, and it just reinforced my preference for the Smartcarry and a "real" pistol. Pocket carry would force my keys into the same pocket as my wallet, my knife would need to move to right rear, and the spare mag would need to go in the left rear - which is a pain in the butt (literally) to sit on.:hand5:

If you have the money, get an R9. I just don't think it is a good value. Better than a .380 LCP? Perhaps. But no way 3 times better - especially with no laser for it. YMMV.
 

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I have a Kahr PM9 so I know a little about the higher priced niche guns, but I bought the Kahr when they were $500 and that is my limit, IMHO there are too many other options out there to have to spend a $1000.
 

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My loaded little LCP sits atop this end table to my left, ready to be pointed toward the living room door. Still, six .380 shots into the face might even be fun and make any invasive intruders laugh into the flashing cracking jumping little muzzle of this house mouse gun.
 
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