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Here in PA we are surrounded by anti-carry states or states that don't honor our permits. So it's quite natural to bump into other out of staters, especially those of us who live near or on the border. What if that person happens to be on or off duty LEO from the bordering state conducting business in your state?

I know this may sound like an odd question so bear with me here. Lets assume I was OC and was out an about minding my own business. Lets say I was in Greencastle, PA right on the border of Maryland (like 2 miles). Lets say I was at McDonald's eating lunch and a Maryland state trooper who was in uniform on the PA side, but off duty saw me open carrying and decided to engage and/or "terry stop" me because he may believe that I am breaking the law in PA. Obviously he has no jurisdiction and I know this, I also know I am breaking no law, but would I be legally required to stay with him if he decided to call PA LE? Could he detain me for what he believes may be breaking the law in a state that he has no jurisdiction in what-so-ever?

Basically could an out of state LEO in the state of PA detain me for PA law enforcement based on something he has no jurisdiction over? If that made sense... or could I basically tell him to get lost and be on my way?
 

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It's never going to be a good idea to resist - if he's making a false arrest (which your scenario seems to be), clarify it after the locals get there. Consider pressing charges or filing a civil suit.
 

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Thats a pretty far out scenario and not very realistic.

An out of jurisdiction LEO wont act on anything unless there is a felony involved or a life in danger.

Even though I am good for the whole state, it is not worth my time or yours to press something minor.A felony in progress or endangered life is one thing, but everything else is trivial.
 

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Why would a MD Trooper be in PA, off-duty, but in uniform? Well its your scenario.........

The MD LEO has no authority to "Terry Stop" you because he "thinks" you may be violating a PA law.
 

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Officer might be in big trouble ??

What if that person happens to be on or off duty LEO from the bordering state conducting business in your state?
Could get interesting in a way you aren't thinking about. PA doesn't recognize MD handgun licenses, for obvious reasons. MD won't reciprocate.

Unless there is some law enforcement compact between PA and MD which governs this situation, the MD officer might be quite illegal in PA, and in a heap of trouble once PA officers arrived.

I heard from my son (when he was in law school) that many years ago a NYC cop was convicted of felony possession of a handgun in NJ and the case went to the SC, and he lost.

I think a more realistic way this sort of scenario might happen is if somehow the MD officer mistakenly still thought he was in MD.

IF something like this has happened to someone you know, or to yourself, consult a PA lawyer.
 

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I think a more realistic way this sort of scenario might happen is if somehow the MD officer mistakenly still thought he was in MD.
and if he found out that he was, then all charges would be dropped.
 

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Perhaps

The MD LEO would be covered by LEOSA. He would not be in any trouble for having a firearm in PA.
LEOSA is relatively new and wasn't in place at the time of the case I mentioned. I just did a little very quick reading and LEOSA seems to apply specifically to concealed carry. If the MD officer was open carrying in PA, which requires a PA LTCF, I'm not so sure he would be immune from prosecution----although I'd think there must be some inter-state compact that covers this sort of thing anyway. Such a compact might even confer limited authority on the MD officer.

Does anyone know for sure how these things are handled? E.g. NY and PA as well.

Or, for HG, what about Arkansas and its neighbors. Are there inter-state compacts that deal with these issues? I can easily see where you might lose track of location if chasing someone near the border.
 

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An out of jurisdiction LEO wont act on anything unless there is a felony involved or a life in danger.

Even though I am good for the whole state, it is not worth my time or yours to press something minor.A felony in progress or endangered life is one thing, but everything else is trivial.
It has happened, so it's not hard to believe at all.

I would go with the flow, point out that I'm not doing anything illegal. However, he would have to be actually detaining me and not just asking me to hang around voluntarily. Then he would find himself dealing mainly with my attorney to determine the amount of the settlement for an illegal detention (commonly termed as kidnapping).
 

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LEOSA is relatively new and wasn't in place at the time of the case I mentioned. I just did a little very quick reading and LEOSA seems to apply specifically to concealed carry. If the MD officer was open carrying in PA, which requires a PA LTCF, I'm not so sure he would be immune from prosecution----although I'd think there must be some inter-state compact that covers this sort of thing anyway. Such a compact might even confer limited authority on the MD officer.

Does anyone know for sure how these things are handled? E.g. NY and PA as well.

Or, for HG, what about Arkansas and its neighbors. Are there inter-state compacts that deal with these issues? I can easily see where you might lose track of location if chasing someone near the border.


you dont need any license to carry openly in PA except in Philly only
 

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First off if he's in uniform you have no way of knowing if he's on duty or not. I don't claim to know PA law, but I don't believe he has authority in PA unless in lawful pursuit of a suspect (ie. vehicle chase) or there on official duty. Either way, I'm going to do as he says and let the police of the state I'm in correct him.
 

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Or, for HG, what about Arkansas and its neighbors. Are there inter-state compacts that deal with these issues? I can easily see where you might lose track of location if chasing someone near the border.
Generally if its going across the lines, the LEO will tell the Dispatcher to call ahead and inform the officers of the state that the chase is going into. When that happens, they back off and let them handle it. There have been requests that they press on, like when it was a known dangerous felon and they might have been short handed. There is a tactical advantage when having a Police car behind and several in front in the case of a felony stop,but you have to be very aware of the line of fire.

It does happen occasionally but not very often. No one is going to complain if you help cuff and stuff a bad-guy and you aren't in your jurisdiction, since they'll be the ones to transport and file charges.

I have both taken and given prisoners at the state line,you just radio where you are going to meet and make it happen. Generally, if you are have a prisoner that is going to Oklahoma, we'll meet the OK Officer on the Arkansas Side. If we are taking one from them and bringing back to Arkansas, we'll meet them over in OK, somewhere close to the border.

When everyone is on the same page,its no big deal.

Its when you start trying to do things by yourself that you tend to hang yourself out on a limb.
 

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I would listen to the nice policeman, do as he demands, and contemplate the color of my new car.:22a:
 

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I would listen to the nice policeman, do as he demands, and contemplate the color of my new car.:22a:
And the location of my retirement property...
 

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... or could I basically tell him to get lost and be on my way?
I think you could tell the Officer to get lost. However, I dont think it would be a good idea. He isn't going to detain you unless he THINKS he has the legal ability to do so. So in his mind you will be resisting arrest and the fight will be on.
I think you would be better off just going with the flow. The state of MD might end up helping your ammo fund.
 

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LEO much like you has arresting power in all states and will call in to the county or state if he/she feels that you are worth the effort to call in a 10-32. Now if he/she is federal, now thats a whole different story. Stay educated and know your rights and you'll do fine.
 

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LEOSA is relatively new and wasn't in place at the time of the case I mentioned. I just did a little very quick reading and LEOSA seems to apply specifically to concealed carry. If the MD officer was open carrying in PA, which requires a PA LTCF, I'm not so sure he would be immune from prosecution----although I'd think there must be some inter-state compact that covers this sort of thing anyway. Such a compact might even confer limited authority on the MD officer.

Does anyone know for sure how these things are handled? E.g. NY and PA as well.

Or, for HG, what about Arkansas and its neighbors. Are there inter-state compacts that deal with these issues? I can easily see where you might lose track of location if chasing someone near the border.
Open carry by itself does NOT require a LTCF. One only needs a LTCF in order to transport the handgun to the place the person desires to OC.
 

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It has happened, so it's not hard to believe at all.

I would go with the flow, point out that I'm not doing anything illegal. However, he would have to be actually detaining me and not just asking me to hang around voluntarily. Then he would find himself dealing mainly with my attorney to determine the amount of the settlement for an illegal detention (commonly termed as kidnapping).
As far off the reservation as that would put him, you'd be foolish to let him settle. Take it ALL, from him and his department who are CLEARLY failing to properly supervise.

There's absolutely NO reason on earth to cut somebody a break for an aggravated kidnapping.
 
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