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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Lessons learned from facing an ?invincible? assailant

This is related to the incident where an officer hit a suspect numerous times with a .45 before multiple head shots ended it.

Summary...

carry what you can shoot well

carry extra ammo

practice, including head shots

stop debating caliber
 

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Good read, thanks for posting. I had given this a lot of thought, and yesterday morning I ordered the Surestrike laser training aid. I plan on placing targets all over the house. to draw on, mostly for trigger control and since I have a dbl action beretta with long trigger pull, that will be my primary focus.
I'll put up a review of the product, after practicing with it, and then taking a trip to the range to see if it helps improve, the shot placement, under pressure.
 

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10thmtn, here is another story very similar, and it just shows you what someone who is NOT high or liquored up, but is very determined can go through, and stay in a fight.
Officer Down: The Peter Soulis Incident - Below 100 - LawOfficer.com
Thanks for posting, as it should show all these guys who think their 5 shot snub, or 6 shot .380 will suffice in the "average" gunfight.
 

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I prescribe the 2 to the chest, rest in the head method..... eventually they will drop, and it is the rarity that a BG takes multiple rounds to the cranial cavity... if he does I have an extra 10 rnds on tap
 

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I have a friend who is a LEO in the big City here. He was on patrol and performed a traffic stop on a luxury sedan. Driver got out of the sedan and was walking towards LEO friend before LEO was fully out of the car. LEO fires taser at driver, hits him in chest, driver locks up but manages to pull taser darts, then covers remaining distance to LEO who had just enough time to knee the driver in the crotch. At which point driver had his hands on LEO's shirt and vest, driver made a deep guttural noise and remained standing. At this point, fellow officer arrived on scene and immediately shot driver with taser at which point he clutched LEO harder and fell.

After everything was said and done, no shots were fired, and tox screen came back on the driver completely clean. No drugs, alcohol or anything.

Scary people are out there.
 
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Thanks for posting. That was a worthwhile read!:yup:
 

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Interesting read, and food for thought. There's all kinds of individuals out there, just like I have noticed while deer hunting, where I have shot deer in the vitals and one would run 100yds or more, and the next might drop dead right there. Nothing is for certain, when it comes to shooting a living breathing organism. There's always exceptions to the norm.
 

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I have a friend who is a LEO in the big City here. He was on patrol and performed a traffic stop on a luxury sedan. Driver got out of the sedan and was walking towards LEO friend before LEO was fully out of the car. LEO fires taser at driver, hits him in chest, driver locks up but manages to pull taser darts, then covers remaining distance to LEO who had just enough time to knee the driver in the crotch. At which point driver had his hands on LEO's shirt and vest, driver made a deep guttural noise and remained standing. At this point, fellow officer arrived on scene and immediately shot driver with taser at which point he clutched LEO harder and fell.

After everything was said and done, no shots were fired, and tox screen came back on the driver completely clean. No drugs, alcohol or anything.

Scary people are out there.
Another example of the totally clean & sober criminal being capable of seemingly inhuman strength is the notorious FBI Miami shootout in 1986. Neither of the assailants had any type of alcohol or narcotic in their systems and remained functional (especially Platt) despite numerous gunshot wounds.
 

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I read a story a long time ago about two officers responding to a call about a threatening and apparently intoxicated individual. While they were talking to him at the door of his motel room, he pulled a gun from behind his back. Between the two officers they fired a total of ten .357 Magnum rounds into his torso at point-blank range. He was staggered and never fired, but he didn't fall or drop his weapon. One of the officers emptied his revolver, while the other (apparently the older and more experienced) ended the fight with his fifth shot, to the head.

That story has always colored my thinking on defensive shooting. There are no guarantees, even with an indisputably effective round. Especially when a BG is armed with a firearm, they can potentially take enormous and probably fatal injuries while still remaining lethal. It's good to share such stories, so we don't get complacent.
 

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Another example of the totally clean & sober criminal being capable of seemingly inhuman strength is the notorious FBI Miami shootout in 1986. Neither of the assailants had any type of alcohol or narcotic in their systems and remained functional (especially Platt) despite numerous gunshot wounds.
If I remember right one of the BGs was an ex-marine and the other a ex-Paratrooper. You never know who you can run into out there and that goes for all of us. Ive seen BGs shrug off tasers, pepper, and gun shots. I always thought, tho hard on ammo, the most realistic courses of fire include shooting until you hear click, then reloading and shooting more. We shot a guy 18 times once, including numerous torso shots, and he was still able to shoot back. I once had a case where an 18 yo kid ran 1/2 a mile after getting lung shot. He bled almost out on the scene yet I saw him back on the street weeks later after they cut a lung out of him. An assailant can take an incredible beating yet still be a threat. Thats why I hope nobody ever holsters and trys playing Mother Theresa on a BG who just tried robbing or harming them.
 

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In SD training, they emphasized the importance of the follow-up shot over and over and over. This is why. It's like flipping a coin. Each bullet has a certain probability of ending the altercation, but sometimes 'heads' will just keep coming up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Just another reason that I carry a big knife.
The BG in this case was shooting at the officer - not sure I want to bring a knife to a gun fight. I'd much rather have a BUG and spare ammo...and a knife. :smile:
 

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Stories like this is why I want more than 5-7 rounds of whatever I am carrying. Shoot till he stops, bursts of 3-5 to COM then same to head. If he's still standing...repeat....
 

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This is why it makes sense to use something you can shoot well rather than searching for the utmost ballistic gel thumper. If you run across one of the really bad ones, you are probably going to have to shoot them out of the fight ( they are not likely to quit on their own ). Only vital hits will accomplish that in time to maybe save your life. Like the LEO in the story said, be sure you can make head shots and never assume that just one will do. And a reload is worth its weight in gold, even if it turns out that you don't need to use it.
 
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10thmtn, here is another story very similar, and it just shows you what someone who is NOT high or liquored up, but is very determined can go through, and stay in a fight.
Officer Down: The Peter Soulis Incident - Below 100 - LawOfficer.com
Thanks for posting, as it should show all these guys who think their 5 shot snub, or 6 shot .380 will suffice in the "average" gunfight.
You are right.If I was LE seeking out BG because it was my job I would do things differently.However in my case,when I saw the suspicious car in the lot,I would have continued on home.5 rounds would have been enough. I am not LE nor a professional gunfighter.I used to think I would get involved in stopping a store robbery for example,but I learned I have no badge or city insurance backing me up. Also when I point my gun at the robber he can shoot me in self defense.Unless I feel I can really do something to help someone who I know is not a BG also,I will do my part as a citizen and call 911,and try to stay out of the profesionals way.
 

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When I first got into law enforcement as a career an older, seasoned, officer told me..."You're just filling them full of holes till you hit something worth shootin'." He was right. I have seen folks blistered with shotguns that got discharged from the hospital the next day, head shots that didn't head-off a dang thing, and other assorted instances during my tours as a cop and soldier. One must remember, only God can truly smite someone, we just tickle their innerds' till He calls the "cease fire".
 

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Ghost,that's the first time I have seen anyone post that but I agree with you. I have seen enough to know it has to be that way. I would like to post some of the stuff I have seen but people would not believe me and it would be pretty graphic. I will say I have seen people killed that you could not hardly find a mark on them and I have seen people so wounded you would think there was no possible way they could live another minute who survived and recovered to a great deal. I can not explain it any other way.
 

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I'm boggled at how someone could get "blistered by shotguns and get discharged from the hospital the next day". I might have the wrong imagery evoked.
 
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