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Discussion Starter #21
The laws that regulate homicide and assault do have variances in certain jurisdictions for armed vs not armed, however, your justification for using force must still fit within the perimeters of those laws.
It may be a moot point all together if you think you can stop an attacker with your bare hands and end up with brain damage or on a slab.
You might have no choice but to use your bare hands if you're not allowed to carry weapons. Some places don't allow weapons.

But that's beside the point, Im talking about a situation where I do successfully stop a bad guy without using any weapons, would the fact that I didn't use any weapons help me out in court?
 

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Discussion Starter #22
...And if you are schooled in "unarmed" self-defense, then a court might believe your well-trained bare hands to be weapons, in and of themselves.
Bare hands can be weapons even without any unarmed self-defense training.
 

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You might have no choice but to use your bare hands if you're not allowed to carry weapons. Some places don't allow weapons.

But that's beside the point, Im talking about a situation where I do successfully stop a bad guy without using any weapons, would the fact that I didn't use any weapons help me out in court?
"...would the fact that I didn't use any weapons help me out in court?"

Not if I am on the jury. My question would be why are you in court if this was self defense.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
How different do you think the jury's perception would be if you fire a single shot that resulted in another person's death than if you choked that same person to death?

I am not speaking about the George Floyd case here. A few years back in the Houston suburbs we had a case where a deputy's husband went MMA on a guy who had relieved himself in public outside a Denny's. Both he and his wife were charged in the death. He was charged for killing the guy and she was charged for not stopping him.
Killing is killing no matter how you do it or what you use to do it so I would think the fact that you killed somebody, whether you shot them or choked them, is going to be what matters the most by far, but my question is if you choked them as opposed to shooting them the fact that you didn't use a gun or any other kind of weapon would make some difference no matter how small.

When guns are involved, that's when it seems the courts go crazy.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
However you apply potentially lethal force, if you continue the application after the threat has ended (he's down, has quit fighting, tries to retreat, etc.) you'll probably be deemed to have committed aggravated or felonious assault.
I am aware of that, once you've stopped the threat you're supposed to stop your application of force since at that point it is no longer a matter of self defense, if you continue to use force.
 

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Killing is killing no matter how you do it or what you use to do it so I would think the fact that you killed somebody, whether you shot them or choked them, is going to be what matters the most by far, but my question is if you choked them as opposed to shooting them the fact that you didn't use a gun or any other kind of weapon would make some difference no matter how small.

When guns are involved, that's when it seems the courts go crazy.
He was forced to shoot his assailant to save his own life.
He coldly strangled his assailant with his bare hands.

The prosecutor can present it however he wishes. How do you think those sweet little old ladies in the jury box are gonna take it?
 

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I am aware of that, once you've stopped the threat you're supposed to stop your application of force since at that point it is no longer a matter of self defense, if you continue to use force.
Judging from some of your other responses, I'm thinking you didn't really have a question.
 

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You might have no choice but to use your bare hands if you're not allowed to carry weapons. Some places don't allow weapons.

But that's beside the point, Im talking about a situation where I do successfully stop a bad guy without using any weapons, would the fact that I didn't use any weapons help me out in court?
Retired Badge in #5 had the best response. I think it was well articulated and very clear.
 

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Killing is killing no matter how you do it or what you use to do it so I would think the fact that you killed somebody, whether you shot them or choked them, is going to be what matters the most by far, but my question is if you choked them as opposed to shooting them the fact that you didn't use a gun or any other kind of weapon would make some difference no matter how small.

When guns are involved, that's when it seems the courts go crazy.
Judging from some of your posts here and elsewhere, my advice to you personally, should you ever find yourself is such a situation, would be to get the best legal counsel you can afford and let them do your talking for you.
 

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How different do you think the jury's perception would be if you fire a single shot that resulted in another person's death than if you choked that same person to death?

I am not speaking about the George Floyd case here. A few years back in the Houston suburbs we had a case where a deputy's husband went MMA on a guy who had relieved himself in public outside a Denny's. Both he and his wife were charged in the death. He was charged for killing the guy and she was charged for not stopping him.
How did those cases turn out?

I have never understood charging someone for not stopping someone else committing a crime.
 

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Samurai used to say there are three outcomes. One dies; both die; one dies and one is injured. A master says there is a fourth outcome. It is avoid the fight so that all may live.

Some weapons will result in added charges in some jurisdictions. The real charge is the act itself, homicide. The question, justified or not justified. Answering the question even if the answer is in your favor may cost years of your life, your home, your marriage, and bankruptcy.

My answer isn't better. @retired badge 1 gave the best answer by far. Succinct and to the point.
 
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You mean like some who claim to be black belt martial artists saying "My hands are registered as lethal weapons"?

I can see that a lawyer might use any certification a defendant might have in hand to hand combat against him in trying to make a case for excessive use of force. In reality I think those who were truly proficient in those disciplines would also be the least inclined to demonstrate their ability unless it was absolutely necessary.
Two important things:

1) "A Lawyer" doesn't sound like a prosecutor. Prosecutors are more interested in air-tight cases that don't result in a year-long trial that costs millions of dollars. Again, what you did is far more important than how you did it. As @Bad Bob said, (loosely quoted) "If deadly force is used legally, you can use a Buick."

2) "A Lawyer" sounds like a civil suit. In civil court, you can be sued for almost anything. Offensive colored shoe laces come to mind.

BTW If I'm not mistaken, the "My hands are registered as lethal weapons" stuff comes from Hollyweird. I'm certain that in my state at least, there are no registries of lethal weapons whatsoever.
 

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How did those cases turn out?

I have never understood charging someone for not stopping someone else committing a crime.
Eventually charges against her were dropped, but that was after she was fired. Husband got 25 years.
One of the things that came up in discussion back then was time. If one pulls a trigger all that matters was if the action was justified the instant the act happened. With a fist fight or choke incident circumstances evolve. Just because lethal force was justified for one instant does not mean it is still justified two seconds later. The parking nazi in Florida learned that the hard way. So did this guy.
Even in states where they have "mutual combat" type justifications they frequently state that as soon as one party attempts to disengage or is incapable of defending themselves the mutual combat is over. Anything after that is a chargeable act.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
"...would the fact that I didn't use any weapons help me out in court?"

Not if I am on the jury. My question would be why are you in court if this was self defense.
Because if you hurt somebody chances are it will go to court even if it was self defense.
 

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Because if you hurt somebody chances are it will go to court even if it was self defense.
Not really. You hear about the ones that do, not the hundreds that do not.
 
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Discussion Starter #39
He was forced to shoot his assailant to save his own life.
He coldly strangled his assailant with his bare hands.

The prosecutor can present it however he wishes. How do you think those sweet little old ladies in the jury box are gonna take it?
It could also be presented like this:
He coldly shot and killed his assailant.
He landed one punch on his assailant intending to stop his assailant and the punch just happened to kill his assailant.

BTW its not just sweet little old ladies that make up juries.
 

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Discussion Starter #40
BTW If I'm not mistaken, the "My hands are registered as lethal weapons" stuff comes from Hollyweird. I'm certain that in my state at least, there are no registries of lethal weapons whatsoever.
You're right about that, about hands not being registered as lethal weapons, at least I've never heard of them being registered as such, as you said its Hollywood.

However, the fact remains that hands can be deadly weapons with or without any training.
 
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