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Discussion Starter #1
I'm looking for a new holster (a small of the back holster) that basically has the pistol up side down with the butt sticking up.
I have only seen one in a series "Kino's journey" .
Does anyone make such a thing? Someone told me it would be difficult to draw with but, I practiced (while holding my holster with my left hand) and it's pretty smooth.
The only thing required is a flip in the draw at the end that really doesn't take away from anything. My Safariland duty holster would work if the belt loops were rotated 90 deg.
I might have problems with the thumb strap though and would like one of those push button trigger guard releases like on the blackhawk's and such.
Finally, when are they going to come out with items for the Taurus pt 24/7 ?
They are really popular but nobody seems to be making stuff for it.
(it's been over a year).
 

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Sob

There is a SOB holster highlighted in Concealed Carry Magaizine this month. I do not remember the name or website, and the mag is at home. maybe someone else can help. It looked like a real quality holster. Hope this helps some.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Nope What I'm looking for is a radical horizontal barrel angle(one that runs along the belt). And no thumb strap just and index finger/trigger guard release. Guess I'll just have to make one ugh.
 

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Well the radical horizontal barrel angle is what most SOB holters are if they are done right.....a more correct way of putting it is a "grip up" design.....the grip of the gun is vertical or close to it.

Id highly recommend that you look for another style of carry...as a maker, I cant stress it enough. Others will tell you the same thing.
Its not only uncomfortable while seated but down right dangerous if you slip and fall. You dont have the same gun access you may need if you really really should need it. Just my opinion.

Shoot well.
 

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yep, lots of folks here have tried and quit using a SOB holster. I tried carrying that way a few times and gave up as well. The main hazard is falling on your spine. Also , to me a full size auto would be difficult to easily conceal SOB.
 

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I would strongly warn against any form of small of the back carry. I personally know an officer who will not ever walk again from a slip on ice and landing on his Glock in the SOB. The spine is not very friendly to strikes there and its the leading reason officers are now tought NOT to place their handcuff cases there. Just ask the NYPD, they use to adv 8 to 10 officers a year going out of commission from injuries just from cuff cases worn in the SOB.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks most people would tell me this carry is bad but not be able to give any specific reasons. Is this true of butt down SOB carry? Specifically it is the hard object on the belt that would cause trauma. Not specifically the handle angle so anything even a knife or pepper spray would be bad. So then hip and shoulder rigs are the only options now?
 

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Bryan - IMO the reason we say SOB is dangerous is - if it is used literally as SOB. Meaning dead center.

I do feel that if worn to one side - which is what I would do - then the risk is reduced massively. I would personally choose to use that style of rig at 5 o'clock and never dead center. The worst then that might occur with a fall would be a serious bruise on the iliac crest of the right side pelvic bone.

I still think SOB rigs have their place if used off center. If actually on center then SOB takes on it's other acronym meaning LOL!
 

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Bryan said:
Thanks most people would tell me this carry is bad but not be able to give any specific reasons. Is this true of butt down SOB carry? Specifically it is the hard object on the belt that would cause trauma. Not specifically the handle angle so anything even a knife or pepper spray would be bad. So then hip and shoulder rigs are the only options now?
Hi Bryan,
Here are a few of the specific reasons why SOB is really bad news:

First: There is the risk of permanent spinal/kidney injury that has already been discussed.

Secondly: The firearm cannot be drawn without pointing it at yourself and/or bystanders. Under the high stress of an actual life threatening attack, a rather large number (some estimates say as many as 20%) of people will actually discharge the firearm as soon as the trigger clears the holster. This is due to a phenomenon called the Tachy-Psyche effect in which (among other things) fine motor skills go out the window and the muscles in the hand/forearm involuntairly clench. The result is unintentionally discharging the firearm). With an SOB, it means that you've either shot yourself or someone downrange on your left side (assuming that you are right handed). You may well feel that "this won't happen to me", but it happens alot - even to level headed, well trained individuals.

Third: The firearm is drawn/presented in an arc that will naturally have you swing past your intended target, waisting time that you will not have to realign the sights on your target.

Fourth: The weapon it totally inaccesable for all practical purposes while seated. If you are car-jacked or attacked while seated, you will die with a gun stuck to your butt.

Fifth: Draw time from an SOB under a cover garment will take at least two seconds, and that is under optimal conditions. Most gunfights are over in about that time frame. Again, the result will be your dying with a gun stuck to your butt.

Sixth: It is quite easy to disarm you from the rear (or side) and kill you with your own weapon.

Seventh: You will achieve a modest level of concealment at best.

By contrast, a good strong side carry will conceal better than an SOB. It will point the muzzle of the firearm at the ground behind you - much safer in the event of an AD. The draw does not have you pointing the muzzle at anyone, unless you actually intend to. Your draw will be smooth, fluid and in a straight line with your target. This will save precious time when time is your worst enemy. The weapon is accessable from most any body position - included seated. You will also achieve much better concealment and have a significantly higher level of retention/control in the event that someone attempts to disarm you.

Once the strengths/weakness of these carry methods are carefully examined, the real question becomes "why would anyone even consider an SOB to begin with?" There are no advantages to it, and a boatload of serious disadvantages.
 

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Excellent post Gary.

Each of your points are right on the money.
 

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Gary Brommeland said:
Fifth: Draw time from an SOB under a cover garment will take at least two seconds, and that is under optimal conditions. Most gunfights are over in about that time frame. Again, the result will be your dying with a gun stuck to your butt.
I agree with everything else said, except for the above. Yes it does take a longer to draw from a SOB than most other OTB/ITP holsters, but two seconds is a real long time.
 

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fed_wif_a_sig said:
I agree with everything else said, except for the above. Yes it does take a longer to draw from a SOB than most other OTB/ITP holsters, but two seconds is a real long time.

Sir,

I would respectfully suggest that you try the following: Take a reasonably well trained shooter, and put them on a firing line wearing an SOB holster. Have them employ an un-tucked shirt as a cover garment. Then put a timer on them and see how long it takes to draw and make a kill zone hit at 7 yards. Most shooters that I've timed could do it in about 1.25 to 1.5 seconds with a strong side holster. I have not yet timed someone who could consistantly do it in under 2 seconds with an SOB. The operative factor here is a cover garment - few, if any folks are going to be walking around with the weapon exposed. Please get back to me with your results - If I am wrong, I certainly want to know. Part of my job is counseling clients on holster options. I need to know if I am giving them bad advice. Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Actually I have carried SOB for several years. I put another holster in between the seats while driving so I'm not sitting on it. Strong side in the waist band holsters really hurt my hip.

This thread has given me lots to think about. As with pointing it at somebody while drawing that is definitely a compromise (the same with horizontal shoulder rigs). As for crossing your body the in butt up position you rotate on the side of your body vertically Butt down is where the horizontal cross becomes a problem.

As with any CC option you need to practice you drawing with snap caps to make sure your reflexes have some memory. With a trigger Gard lock depressed with the index finger and keeping the index finger pointed until your on target will dramatica reduce the reflex trigger pull mistakes.

As for strong side carry it is the undisputed best position for draw times and retention. But strong side carry is still vulnerable to disarmament as one person demonstrates to me when I was armed once. I knew the person but obviously misplaced my trust and let my gard down. He didn't draw the weapon but sure scared the hell out of me when he grabbed hold of it. Moral is attention is the best tool for retention.

So I really have lots to think about maybe I should try a foam practice gun and a training mat to see if moving the weapon of center has any benefits from falling. Don't worry about me injuring myself I will use cation. You have given some good reasons to look into and see if they can't be worked out.
 
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