[Gary Slider]

I spent 40 minutes today on the phone with Sgt. Clay Reavis of the Concealed Handgun Unit Louisiana Dept of Public Safety. I have been receiving emails and reading on other web sites stating carry in restaurants like Friday's, Red Lobster, Applebee's etc was legal in Louisiana and that Handgunlaw.us was wrong to list LA as No restaurant carry allowed. Sgt. Reavis called me after I sent him an email.

Sgt. Reavis explained to me that there has been a lot of questions about this and that Criminal Law (Pasted Below) does not allow a permit/license holder to carry in any part of any establishment where they sell alcohol for consumption on the premises. This means establishment that sells beer etc for consumption on the premises. No carry is allowed.

I wanted to make sure this info got out as I would hate to see someone get arrested and maybe lose their permit/license to carry after reading info posted on other websites. Sgt Reavis told me he will try to update the FAQ page on the LA site adding this very FAQ. He does have other duties besides running the Concealed Handgun Unit and he told me it will take some time.

Here is the email I ask him to send me and I got his permission to post his name and #:

LRS 14:95.5 Possession of firearm beverage outlet

Possession of firearm on premises of alcoholic beverage outlet
A. No person shall intentionally possess a firearm while on the premises of an alcoholic beverage outlet.
B. "Alcoholic beverage outlet" as used herein means any commercial establishment in which alcoholic beverages of either high or low alcoholic content are sold in individual servings for consumption on the premises, whether or not such sales are a primary or incidental purpose of the business of the establishment.
C. The provisions of this Section shall not apply to the owner or lessee of an alcoholic beverage outlet, or to an employee of such owner or lessee, or to a law enforcement officer or other person vested with law enforcement authority acting in the performance of his official duties.
D. Whoever violates the provisions of this Section shall be fined not more than five hundred dollars or imprisoned for not more than six months, or both.
Acts 1985, No. 765, §1.

Sgt. Clay Reavis
Louisiana State Police
Concealed Handgun Permit Section
225-925-4867

 

[slingshot554]

Thanks for the research. I go to Louisiana often, and have often wondered about that myself.

 

[REVMAN]

Good information. I also go to La alot.

 

[Eagleks]

That kinda sucks. Why can't someone go into a restaurant that also serves alcohol ? What do they think is going to happen ?? Here it's legal to carry in any bar, as long as it isn't posted.... let alone any restaurant. There was a lot of debate and rational thought won out.

There have been ZERO issues with it. NONE !!!!

CCW people are "responsible", law abiding people, who know not to sit there and drink while carrying. geez...... when will they get it ?

 

[JerryM]

We have the same problem here in NM.

I do not drink, and believe that alcohol and gunpowder don't mix. However, I believe the law could state that it was illegal to drink while carrying , and permit CCW in a restaurant if the carrier was not drinking.

In time I think we can get it changed, but probably not in the near future.

Regards,
Jerry

 

[Majorlk]

Thank you for your efforts to make and keep hndgunlaw.us the most accurate firearms information site there is.

 

[goldshellback]

Man, when did that change. I know it used to be diffrent.

 

[Grant48]

Yep, anywhere that serves alcohol for "on-premises consumption" is off-limits. I'm in Louisiana pretty often, and thats how I've always interpreted it.

 

[dazet]

This is kind of confusing to me. Not trying to start any arguments but could someone explain why paragraph D is different.

RS 14:95.4

§95.4. Consent to search; alcoholic beverage outlet

A. Any person entering an alcoholic beverage outlet as defined herein, by the fact of such entering, shall be deemed to have consented to a reasonable search of his person for any firearm by a law enforcement officer or other person vested with police power, without the necessity of a warrant.

B. For purposes of this Section, "alcoholic beverage outlet" means any commercial establishment in which alcoholic beverages of either high or low alcoholic content are sold in individual servings for consumption on the premises, whether or not such sales are the primary purpose or are an incidental purpose of the business of the establishment.

C. An "alcoholic beverage outlet" licensed to sell firearms or containing an indoor shooting gallery shall be exempt from the provisions of this Section in those areas designated for the sale of firearms or the shooting gallery.

D. An "alcoholic beverage outlet" shall not include a restaurant if a majority of its gross receipts are from sales of food and non-alcoholic beverages.

E. The owner of the alcoholic beverage outlet shall post a sign, at or near the entrance, that states that by the fact of entering these premises a person shall be deemed to have consented to a reasonable search of his person for any firearm by a law enforcement officer or other person vested with police power, without the necessity of a warrant.

Added by Acts 1983, No. 524, §1.

 

[goldshellback]

This is kind of confusing to me. Not trying to start any arguments but could someone explain why paragraph D is different.
D. An "alcoholic beverage outlet" shall not include a restaurant if a majority of its gross receipts are from sales of food and non-alcoholic beverages.
Added by Acts 1983, No. 524, §1.

Last time I was back home, the "common sense" deduction was if you had to pay to get in or you could smoke inside, it was off limits.

Restaurants with 'bars' were OK as long as you didn't sit or go into the 'bar' or have a drink.

 

[Eagleks]

this is kind of confusing to me. Not trying to start any arguments but could someone explain why paragraph d is different.

Rs 14:95.4

§95.4. Consent to search; alcoholic beverage outlet

d. An "alcoholic beverage outlet" shall not include a restaurant if a majority of its gross receipts are from sales of food and non-alcoholic beverages.


Added by acts 1983, no. 524, §1.

very good point ....

 

[packin]

From the "prohibited locations" off of the LA State police website:

"Any portion of the permitted area of an establishment that has been granted a Class A-General retail permit, as defined in Part II of Chapter 1 or Part II of Chapter 2 of Title 26 of the Louisiana Revised Statutes of 1950, to sell alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises."


I read up on this over a year ago and had the same concerns worries about carrying in an outback,chillis,applebees, etc. Here is the key point.

There are different types of liquor licenses issued for various establishments in the state. The concealed carry law says Class A-General retail permit. This type of license is what you find for Bars that are not primarily selling food. Class R liquor licenses are for restaurants that can sell alcohol but food is the major portion of sales.



Here is some information from a State website regarding a Class R liquor license criteria:



CRITERIA
CLASS R (Restaurant) PERMIT
Each applicant for a Class R (restaurant) permit shall meet the following criteria:
1. Must operate a place of business whose purpose is primarily to prepare for consumption and to serve
meals and meal items to the general public.
2. Must serve food on all days of operation.
3. Must file a copy of the applicant's menu with the application for said permit, both new and renewal.
4. Must furnish an affidavit from the local health department showing compliance with all applicable
health and sanitary requirements with new applications.
5. Must gross 60% of their monthly revenue from the sale of food, food items and non-alcoholic
beverages. Food sales on premises and pickup/delivery/catered sales are to be maintained separately.
6. Must maintain separate sales figures for alcoholic beverages.
7. All applications for Class R permits, whether new or renewal, shall be in writing, sworn to in front of
a Notary Public, and shall contain the full name of the applicant along with a complete description
and correct address of the premises where the restaurant is located.
8. All permit holders must operate a bona fide restaurant by having a fully equipped kitchen facility and
dining room manned and operated at all times that alcoholic beverages are sold on Sunday.
9. The Class R permit shall be subject to revocation by the ABC Board at any time following a hearing
(as provided for all other licenses and/or permits issued under the Wine, Beer and Liquor Ordinance)
and a determination that the permit holder fails to meet the criteria set forth in the ordinance.
10. New businesses without prior business experience on which to base a determination of percentage of
food sales vs. alcoholic beverage sales, a temporary permit may be issued by the Board for 60 days,
after which time evidence of all sales, as may be deemed necessary by the Board, will be required to
make the permit permanent.



When I asked the same question to the state police in 2008 regarding concealed carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol and has a bar, I received the following response:

Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 1:41 PM
Subject: Re: Concealed carry handgun question.



The restaurant is not prohibited but the designated bar area is.

Sgt. Starnes




Hope this helps.

 

[dazet]

Last time I was back home, the "common sense" deduction was if you had to pay to get in or you could smoke inside, it was off limits.

Restaurants with 'bars' were OK as long as you didn't sit or go into the 'bar' or have a drink.

That's how it's always been explained to me. Did some more looking and Gary maybe you could contact SGT Reavis about these, so we can all know what is legal.

starting with:

RS 40:1379.3
N. No concealed handgun may be carried into and no concealed handgun permit issued pursuant to this Section shall authorize or entitle a permittee to carry a concealed handgun in any of the following
10) Any portion of the permitted area of an establishment that has been granted a Class A-General retail permit, as defined in Part II of Chapter 1 or Part II of Chapter 2 of Title 26 of the Louisiana Revised Statutes of 1950, to sell alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises.


which brings you to:

RS 26:71.1
§71.1. Class A permit; definitions

The commissioner shall issue the following four types of Class A retail liquor permits:

(1) Class A-General:


(d) A Class A-General retail permit shall be issued only to an establishment where the state law provides that no person under the age of eighteen years is allowed on the premises except as provided in R.S. 26:90(A)(8)(a).

R.S. 26:90(A)(8)(a) pertains to under 18 employment

 

[ppkheat]

Below is a fairly recent DC thread that was running not too long ago about the same thing. On the thread below I posted in response #5 and in that response I included yet another link that takes you to another forum that discusses the alcohol/restaurant issue in very great detail. I think it is a very thorough discussion for anyone who is interested. FWIW


http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbull...s/91689-can-i-ccw-new-orleans-restaurant.html

 

[BigBear]

It's the same here in NC. I don't even drink, and I still can't carry into a restaurant that serves alcohol. It's already illegal to carry and drink, so the rationale escapes me.

 

[Gary Slider]

You have to watch what Laws say. There are many on the books that can say different things about the same issue. When LA got their CCW law they didin't change other laws. That is why there is confusion. But the law is very plain and states:
A. No person shall intentionally possess a firearm while on the premises of an alcoholic beverage outlet.
B. "Alcoholic beverage outlet" as used herein means any commercial establishment in which alcoholic beverages of either high or low alcoholic content are sold in individual servings for consumption on the premises, whether or not such sales are a primary or incidental purpose of the business of the establishment.

It says any type of alcohol for consumption on the premises. That mean all places you can sit down and they will serve you any alcoholic drink. I have seen this same thing in other states laws. They have passed a CCW law and there are other laws on the books from Pre CCW law days that say similar things but are worded different.

Just like open carry laws. States have them on the books but then they arrest you when you are open carrying because you caused a panic in public etc etc. I Believe from reading the law that you can't carry in a place that serves any alcohol by LA Law. That is what the person in charge of issuing permits in LA told me also. On Handgunlaw.us I have to report what the states are saying about their laws. I can't put my opinion down and as I believe the laws are and tell people it is OK. If I have any doubt I go with the more restrictive reading until it is proven different.

 

[metallic]

My understanding has always been that I'm in the clear as long as I don't step foot into the bar area of the restaurant. I could be wrong, but that has also been my interpretation from the fairly vague laws on concealed carry in a "beverage outlet."

 

[ppkheat]

You have to watch what Laws say. There are many on the books that can say different things about the same issue. When LA got their CCW law they didin't change other laws. That is why there is confusion. But the law is very plain and states:
A. No person shall intentionally possess a firearm while on the premises of an alcoholic beverage outlet.
B. "Alcoholic beverage outlet" as used herein means any commercial establishment in which alcoholic beverages of either high or low alcoholic content are sold in individual servings for consumption on the premises, whether or not such sales are a primary or incidental purpose of the business of the establishment.

It says any type of alcohol for consumption on the premises. That mean all places you can sit down and they will serve you any alcoholic drink. I have seen this same thing in other states laws. They have passed a CCW law and there are other laws on the books from Pre CCW law days that say similar things but are worded different.

Just like open carry laws. States have them on the books but then they arrest you when you are open carrying because you caused a panic in public etc etc. I Believe from reading the law that you can't carry in a place that serves any alcohol by LA Law. That is what the person in charge of issuing permits in LA told me also. On Handgunlaw.us I have to report what the states are saying about their laws. I can't put my opinion down and as I believe the laws are and tell people it is OK. If I have any doubt I go with the more restrictive reading until it is proven different.

It seems to me there is a healthy dose of ambiguity in this restaurant/alcohol issue. I'd guess it would take a courts opinion or legislative action to actually clear it all up. I don't want to be the test case, and with that ambiguity it is safest for any chl holder to be cautious regarding restaurants, and the LSP is going to offer the safest interpretaion to the public.

I'm a big supporter of the LSP and know they do a great job, I've spoken to Sgt Reaves myself with some questions, he was very helpful and cooperative. I'm glad he's in that spot.

FWIW a short time back the LSP posted on their website that effective immediately LA would no longer honor non-resident FLA permits, that policy didn't stay in effect long, I think that non-resident decision actually had to be handled through the legislature? We all can make an error in an interpretation.

http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbull...ood-news-about-fl-non-resident-permit-la.html

 

[farronwolf]

My understanding is that LA has always prohibited carry in places that sell alcohol for on premise consumption, which is what has been posted, not just the "bar" area of the restaurant.

As far as I understand and have seen in LA you can be served alchol outside of the bar area, therefor the entire establishment is a no carry zone.

TX and AR are different, but when I go to LA I can't go and eat in a restaurant that sells alcohol.

 

[Eagleks]

That's the same junk we have disquinishing bars from restuarants, % of sales, etc.... and one reason they just took the whole thing out of CCW laws and put in "if the owner wants to prohibit it, he can put up a no CCW sign".... otherwise, it's allowed.