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Discussion Starter #1
Being a new shooter, I am sure a lot of my problem shooting low is a trigger control problem, but could some of it be caused by my using the wrong sight picture for my gun?

I have been using #2 method in the attached photo, and it hits low. I tend to do better when I have the front sight dot a little higher than the rear ones, ala #3.

I am guessing #1 is probably the right sight picture, but wanted to get some input from other people who have a S&W M&P.

Thanks so much!

Sight_Picture_Flat.jpg
 

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You may be making it more complicated than it should be. What I took from your post, is that you're aiming low... and the rounds are hitting low? There is no one correct sight picture. If you fire hundreds of rounds through a gun and it consistently prints a couple inches low, yeah, you can file your front sight, get different sights, whatever but it's a whole lot easier to just aim a bit higher.

Slipping a dummy round at random into your mags at the range is an easy way to see if your trigger pull, recoil anticipation or some other movement is throwing off the sight picture. No bang, sights shouldn't move at all.
 

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Being a new shooter, I am sure a lot of my problem shooting low is a trigger control problem, but could some of it be caused by my using the wrong sight picture for my gun?

I have been using #2 method in the attached photo, and it hits low. I tend to do better when I have the front sight dot a little higher than the rear ones, ala #3.

I am guessing #1 is probably the right sight picture, but wanted to get some input from other people who have a S&W M&P.

Thanks so much!

View attachment 158706

My M&P Shield 45 came with the sights to be used like the #1 pic. I have always sighted using the #2 pic with all of my handguns and like you my bullet impact was low. Instead of retraining my aim I just ordered a shorter Dawson's fiber optic front sight and installed it. Bullet impact is where I want it now.
 

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Try focusing on the target instead of the sights. That works for me out to about sixty yards with my 9C.
 
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Mike1956, what sights are you using on your 9c?
 

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My Glock G17 is one (G26 & G19 same) My Ruger SR40C was 2 but i change the sights on them and now they are 1.
 

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# 1 should be the correct sight picture for stock M&P sights. The white dot should cover where you want the bullet to impact.(at distances up to 25-30 yards. )
 

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#1 and maybe, up a little with the front sight, trigger squeeze until it surprises you with the break, of course in a SD situation, all that programing is off. LOL
 

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I have a 9c and a 40c and both hit to point of aim beautifully with their factory sights. I bought the 9c first and it had a very heavy trigger, coming in at 9.5 pounds out of the box. So in went the Apex DCAEK install route but with the stock factory OEM trigger spring instead of the supplied Apex spring. That brought the pull weight down to just over five pounds with a very nice break. The 40c got the same treatment even though its trigger was much better out of the box.

Initially I shot my 9c low at the 6 'o clock position. I had to compensate by raising the front sight a little in my sight picture. But this is NOT how you want to correct this. So I got to thinking. Almost always when a gun doesn't shoot to point of aim it's the fault of the shooter, not the gun. So just on a lark, I installed the large grip back strap and voila... problem solved. The gun is accurate in my hands and is now one of my primary carry guns. Did the same thing with me 40c and it is even a little more accurate than the 9c.

Try changing your back strap to see if that doesn't fix your problem.

Another hint for what it's worth. For a solid grip on the gun and a much better chance of increasing your accuracy, use the 60/40 grip method. That means your support hand should supply 60% of the grip pressure and your shooting hand should supply 40%. Try some dry fire practice with this technique and see if your sight picture remains more fixed and steady when your trigger breaks. Remember, that bullet is going to go where the barrel is pointing at the moment your trigger breaks. So a firm and steady hold using the 60/40 method might just be a Godsend for your hits.
 
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With my 1911, I can't even see the bull. As long as I cover my POA with my front sight, I'm dead on. My Walther is a little closer to six o'clock but my front sight is still what I focus on. And yes... Trigger pull plays a big part in your POI. Like said above.. Try snap caps loaded randomly in your mag.. YMMV
 

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# 1 should be the correct sight picture for stock M&P sights. The white dot should cover where you want the bullet to impact.(at distances up to 25-30 yards. )
I'm using #1 here, if it's hit low or high, I just re-calibrate the front sight.
That statement really puzzles me. How can one recalibrate a front sight for elevation? Please answer, I may learn something new. Shims?
 

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I'll take any sight picture that hits within the red circles for quick self defense style hits.

The black dot bullseye style?

Heck, I can hit the broad side of a barn if it's within range.

Fore!
 
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I have found that guns of the same make, model & caliber DO NOT necessarily ALL shoot to the same Point Of Aim (POA). :ticking:

This is due to barrel lockup and a wide range of manufacturing tolerances. :frown:

Ideally, in a perfect world, POA (Point of AIM) should equal POI (Point of Impact). And that's why they make fully adjustable sights. :image035:
 

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A lot of people were taught the 6 o'clock hold where you line up the bottom of the target with the top of the front sight so you can hit the middle of the target. Your image 3. is the most traditional and called point of aim equals point of impact (POA=POI) where you line up the TOP of the front sight with where you want to hit. Your image 1 is where you cover where you want to hit with the center of your front sight DOT.

Any can work but where to focus is probably just as important. You have 3 choices rear sight, front sight or target.

the CORRECT plane to focus on is the FRONT sight, not the target since the bullet will go where the front sight is pointing. You will always get the best results by keeping the front sight in focus while "pressing" not "pulling" the trigger as it will help you keep the gun steady.

that is the main reason why the front sight is always colored. When you are correctly focusing the FRONT sight the rear sight and target will appear blurry.

So first line up the dots then change your focus to the fron sight and line it up with the rear sights as well as the blurred out target. Press the trigger while trying your best not to move the front sight at all.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I have a 9c and a 40c and both hit to point of aim beautifully with their factory sights. I bought the 9c first and it had a very heavy trigger, coming in at 9.5 pounds out of the box. So in went the Apex DCAEK install route but with the stock factory OEM trigger spring instead of the supplied Apex spring. That brought the pull weight down to just over five pounds with a very nice break. The 40c got the same treatment even though its trigger was much better out of the box.

Initially I shot my 9c low at the 6 'o clock position. I had to compensate by raising the front sight a little in my sight picture. But this is NOT how you want to correct this. So I got to thinking. Almost always when a gun doesn't shoot to point of aim it's the fault of the shooter, not the gun. So just on a lark, I installed the large grip back strap and voila... problem solved. The gun is accurate in my hands and is now one of my primary carry guns. Did the same thing with me 40c and it is even a little more accurate than the 9c.

Try changing your back strap to see if that doesn't fix your problem.

Another hint for what it's worth. For a solid grip on the gun and a much better chance of increasing your accuracy, use the 60/40 grip method. That means your support hand should supply 60% of the grip pressure and your shooting hand should supply 40%. Try some dry fire practice with this technique and see if your sight picture remains more fixed and steady when your trigger breaks. Remember, that bullet is going to go where the barrel is pointing at the moment your trigger breaks. So a firm and steady hold using the 60/40 method might just be a Godsend for your hits.
I will give that a try...right now I have the medium back strap on. I can try with the large and the small if needed. I do know that , even with just the medium one on there, I really can't eject the mag with my thumb...just can't quite get my thumb over top of the button far enough. I was actually thinking of asking that question separately lol.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
A lot of people were taught the 6 o'clock hold where you line up the bottom of the target with the top of the front sight so you can hit the middle of the target. Your image 3. is the most traditional and called point of aim equals point of impact (POA=POI) where you line up the TOP of the front sight with where you want to hit. Your image 1 is where you cover where you want to hit with the center of your front sight DOT.

Any can work but where to focus is probably just as important. You have 3 choices rear sight, front sight or target.

the CORRECT plane to focus on is the FRONT sight, not the target since the bullet will go where the front sight is pointing. You will always get the best results by keeping the front sight in focus while "pressing" not "pulling" the trigger as it will help you keep the gun steady.

that is the main reason why the front sight is always colored. When you are correctly focusing the FRONT sight the rear sight and target will appear blurry.

So first line up the dots then change your focus to the fron sight and line it up with the rear sights as well as the blurred out target. Press the trigger while trying your best not to move the front sight at all.
Thanks for the tips, and I will keep working on them!
 
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