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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I hope that some will be able to help me on this. I am looking at getting a MA permit as a Non-Resident. I realize that starting, I have to go through a MA approved class and a interview. When it comes to renewal, one year later, do I have to redo the training and interview? I am just wanted to know what to expect when jumping into this. Thanks! :smilez:
 

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I wouldn't think you would have to redo the training and interview.
Why are you choosing a MA permit?
I only ask because you may be able to accomplish your goal with a permit from a simpler state. . .
PA offers easy to get non-res permits.
 

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Not sure but I have a question for you since you live in Maine. I wanted to get a non-res for Maine, I already have NH, and PA but it says you need to submit proof of handgun knowledge. What does that entail for a Maine Concealed carry? What did you have to do to prove "handgun knowledge"?
 

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No you do not have to redo/retake a course.
The course certificate is good for life.

For example take a MA Basic Hunter Education course and pass that to meet the minimum requirement. The courses are offered as FREE at no cost.
Passing the course results in a certificate of completion that has no expiration date/term.
It is good for life, as by current statute.

Specific to non-resident/out-of-state applicants that is all you will need as application process is made to the state Police and not to a local issuing authority as it works for residents, of which town to town some IAs will not accept a BHE cert. as being applicable to the specific LTC-A ('License To Cary - all Lawful Purposes') type permit which allows carry of a firearm as _"loaded"_, again per statute.

You are and will though as per current regulation be required to re-apply/renew as in person for every renewal which is in effect a re-application.
The duration of a non-resident LTC is one (1) year, unless the permit is for 'Employment'.

Below is a link to all the _current_ information a non-resident applicant will need on this as at one source:
http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/chsb/firearms/MIRCS Non-Resident LTC application - for website.pdf

I am a MA BHE instructor and this question comes up without fail in _every_ class by at least one student who is out of state and attending just to get the required cert.

- Janq
 

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I wouldn't think you would have to redo the training and interview.
Why are you choosing a MA permit?
I only ask because you may be able to accomplish your goal with a permit from a simpler state. . .
PA offers easy to get non-res permits.
Dailey,

MA does not recognize nor reciprocate with _ANY_ other state.

If a person plans to cross the border into MA with a firearm OR ammunition OR ammunition components OR magazine/loaders (!) as by possession without the purpose being to attend a sporting event or to be driving through as without temporary lay over (rest/fuel stops) then said non-resident possessor is required by statute to possess an LTC.

This state is hard core is it gets when it comes to firearms laws and regulation.
I kid you not these people do not play.

- Janq
 

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There is a sign right over the border when crossing into MA from VT that says even if your just passing through you must stop at the nearest police station and report that your passing through with a firearm. I never do though, A friend of mine had stopped one time after reading the sign and on his way to PA where he has a CCL. He went to the local station left the gun locked in the trunk of the car and told them he had saw the sign and wanted to report that he was passing though with a locked pistol in the truck of his car. He was immediately cuffed, while the LEO went to the car got the gun, ran the numbers ask MANY questions, then finally let him go and told him not to make any stops in MA. This didn't happen to me so I can't say it's 100% true but it is a very close friend who I trust. I don't doubt it one bit though since the massholes hate us Vermonters, we have always clashed being a state of very few laws and them being a state of MANY laws, they just don't like our free american spirit :smile: but the point was to back up Janq when he says the massholes do not play....
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
No you do not have to redo/retake a course.
The course certificate is good for life.

For example take a MA Basic Hunter Education course and pass that to meet the minimum requirement. The courses are offered as FREE at no cost.
Passing the course results in a certificate of completion that has no expiration date/term.
It is good for life, as by current statute.

Specific to non-resident/out-of-state applicants that is all you will need as application process is made to the state Police and not to a local issuing authority as it works for residents, of which town to town some IAs will not accept a BHE cert. as being applicable to the specific LTC-A ('License To Cary - all Lawful Purposes') type permit which allows carry of a firearm as _"loaded"_, again per statute.

You are and will though as per current regulation be required to re-apply/renew as in person for every renewal which is in effect a re-application.
The duration of a non-resident LTC is one (1) year, unless the permit is for 'Employment'.

Below is a link to all the _current_ information a non-resident applicant will need on this as at one source:
http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/chsb/firearms/MIRCS Non-Resident LTC application - for website.pdf

I am a MA BHE instructor and this question comes up without fail in _every_ class by at least one student who is out of state and attending just to get the required cert.

- Janq
So is there a way to do the hunters safety course there in 1 day? Do you have a website for the class to get the certificate needed? PM me if you want. Thanks
Ken
 

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To add to ADKjoe theone _common_ thing that I personally have seen/witnessed first hand as a misunderstanding or outright assumption by persons unfamiliar with MA firearm laws is toward lawful possession AND proper storage per _statute_ of; Ammunition, ammunition _components_, and loading devices (magazines).

Unlike most any other state in the union MA does discriminate and have detailed by name in the statute not just that of ammunition but that of components too. Further it even _defines_ components to be casings and shells, primers, powder, shot and other projectiles. This is defined in the statute!
Myself when I saw that I was like no way (!). Further they in the statute define magazine loaders and restriction toward them is inclusive toward lawful right of _possession_.

So what I often have seen are people show up in MA for a firearms related course. Not a "sporting event" such as an IDPA event. An instruction course, which IS NOT THE SAME.

People roll into class with fill in the blank type gun (handgun, shotgun or rifle), magazines which almost always are as defined by MA statute "high capacity" being able to support greater than ten (10) rounds maximum and they brought their own ammo too.
And even in one instance this past spring a student did all of this and _did not_ bring a means to lock his gun (shotgun) for transport! He was from PA.

All of these are HUGELY unlawful in the state of MA if you do not have a license/permit as toward possession. And at that the right type in regard to magazine capacity.

Also I have seen people in the parking lots of courses roll up or pack up to leave tossing their ammo and/or gun (cased and uncased) as on to the back seat of their vehicle! In MA!!!!

I try to advise folks IRL hey man do that and get seen or even caught up in a minor fender bender or flat tire situation to which the cops arrive and you will be arrested and charged in this state with firearms charges that are waaaayyy serious and costly. Most will say oh wow I didn't know (!). But a few times like the guy with no lock for his case become indignant as though I wrote the laws myself.
I'll never ever forget that latter guy. He got all red faced and darn near got ready to cuss me out. I _always_ keep a spare cable lock AND a shackle type Master lock in the bottom of my range kit for emergencies. Doing so in MA has saved my bacon four times now.
I offered this guy my spare cable lock which I had gotten free from my local PD as I give them during the courses I instruct. He refused me and I felt he was on the cusp of telling me where I could stick my lock at that.I'd not forced it on him and I was not rude to start. I'd approached him in private and during class we had no particular issues with each other. He'd seemed to be a rational and regular guy. Wrong.

Anyway in the end he did take my cable lock but I never saw him lockup his case. He just rolled out and didn't even say "Thank you".

I did that and do this here not for any gain for me.
I'm good to go and know what I know, by heart.
But weekly in the news there is some Moe, Joe or Jane who gets caught up in my region alone with a gun charge that was very easy to avoid if only they had known better or done better. Weekly. I'd swear it.
With this the antis here then come to believe that 'guns' and criminals with guns are everywhere and by that the _police_ are in need of even more laws to allow them better ability to "take more guns off the street".

See where I'm going here?

I tell this to students in every course I instruct as related to Basic Hunter Ed.
Yes they are coming into or through this state to hunt and shoot for sport/recreation. But the bottom line is you gotta follow the laws and stay within them, to the letter.
Do not do this and you risk your world as well as that for all the rest of us which is how this state came to be in this sorry predicament as it is.

Once again Massachusetts does not play.
Know it, understand it and don't come here with any arms or ammunition unless you can tolerate and abide by it's laws. Period.

- Janq
 

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well said Janq, Whenever I travel through It's locked in the back of jeep unloaded and the bullets are in the glove box or a backpack in my front seat. However there is no law that I know of that says you have to check your firearm at the local PD before passing through the state. I think they only post it on the VT/MA line to try and get us crazy vermonters :smile:

It's amazing how different the laws are in 2 states that touch.

Besides when I do pass through I have either a 9mm with 8 rounds or a .357 mag with 5 rounds. I have been pulled over on the mass turnpike with a locked 9mm in my trunk and had no problems. He didn't like me being in the state with a gun but there was nothing he could do I was on my way back to VT coming from PA. It's a beautiful thing when I pass that state line back to a free country.
 

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So is there a way to do the hunters safety course there in 1 day? Do you have a website for the class to get the certificate needed? PM me if you want. Thanks
Ken
Nope.

The MA BHE course follows a curriculum that is state regulated and further is accredited by both the US. Fish & Wildlife Service as well as the International Hunter Education Association. The IHEA in fact is the governing body for all US state based BHE education certificate programs.

A BHE course as certified under the USFWS and by the BHE requires minimum 12 hrs. to on average 14 hrs. total of course time.
Approximately 40% of that is classroom toward the traditional training instruction. While those few across the nation and as within MA that offer online study (also certified by the USFWS and accredited by the IHEA) in lieu of the classroom component the remainder is 20% classroom and roughly 80% direct instructional.

There is absolutely no way to offer any BHE course in a single days time even if it were offered from 8A to 8P.
To take the test alone (pass/fail) generally requires an hour of classroom time in its self.

If you,or anyone, ever runs into some group that offer to do same as specific to BHE (bow for example is a one day/8hr. course...which I am not certified to instruct) then run not walk away from that. You would be doing yourself a disservice and very likely wasting your time as the course instructors would not be state recognized as valid.

In MA anyone can get all the info on our BHE and other offered courses by visiting the 'MA Wildlife' website; MassWildlife - Home Page

Specific to BHE the link is the following; MassWildlife - Hunter Education Course Schedules

Do know that here in MA our courses fill up to maximum capacity _very_ quickly with as much a 6 mos. lead time!
You gotta register and do so quick as into a future date.

I have yet to instruct a course that was not at full capacity as based on bodies in the room. I have been an instructor two years now and I instruct classes 11 mos. per year (December there are no courses) and I instruct on two teams which generally puts me in a BHE class twice per month.

- Janq
 

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well said Janq, Whenever I travel through It's locked in the back of jeep unloaded and the bullets are in the glove box or a backpack in my front seat. However there is no law that I know of that says you have to check your firearm at the local PD before passing through the state. I think they only post it on the VT/MA line to try and get us crazy vermonters :smile:.
Yeah me neither, I am not aware of any such item requiring report of arms/ammunition to the police...As specific to non-resident travelers.
There are though other reasons and statute requirements for same but they do not involve non-resident persons nor travel.

Honest this state is plain crazy.

I say that not as a pejorative but rather as a reflection on manner of current condition relative to it's own self and history past.

The MA state seal and motto both espouse the possession of arms and ammunition toward liberty as by residents.



The State Seal, adopted by Governor John Hancock and the Council on December 13, 1780 and made official by the General Court on June 4, 1885, is circular and bears a representation of the arms of the Commonwealth encircled with the words, "Sigillum Reipublicae Massachusettensis" (Seal of the Republic of Massachusetts)...

The arms, according to legislative enactment, consist of "a shield having a blue field or surface with an Indian thereon, dressed in a shirt and moccasins, holding in his right hand a bow, and in his left hand an arrow, point downward, all of gold; and, in the upper corner of the field, above his right arm, a silver star with five points. The crest is a wreath of blue and gold, on which in gold is a right arm, bent at the elbow, clothed and ruffled, with the hand grasping a broadsword". The shield's shape is called "Plantagenet"; the Native American model used was of the Algonquin nation; the arrow points downward to indicate that the Indian is peaceful; and the star indicates that Massachusetts was one of the original thirteen states; it was sixth. The sword illustrates the Latin motto that is written in gold on a blue ribbon around the bottom of the shield: "Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem". This is the second of two lines written about 1659 by Algernon Sydney, English soldier and politician, in the Book of Mottoes in the King's Library in Copenhagen, Denmark. It was adopted in 1775 by the Provincial Congress and means, "By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty".

Source - MA Citizen Information Service: State Symbols
A sad state of affairs.

- Janq
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
It is kind of funny that I have used firearms for most of my life, yet there are so many differences! I got my hunters safety in 1985 when I was 11. As time has marched on I hold several out of state CCW permits, yet I have to get a MA and RI if I want to carry when going to visit the in-laws.
Here is another question for Janq.. The reason I am looking to get these two states is my wife is a psychiatrist and has to deal with patients that could stalk and mean harm. In obtaining a permit would this be considered a work related need since my wife works a higher risk job? Thanks!
 

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One other item that popped in my head while on the phone with a client...

Do not take my word on _anything_ as related to statutes, regulations and the law!

I say this too to students during courses and very much encourage them to not just study to pass a test but learn and know this stuff themself for their own best benefit.
As here at DC.com I'm just some guy with a keyboard among a whole lot of others with a keyboard. Some times people say or suggest wrong/incorrect stuff, with a keyboard. Not on purpose or for nefarious reasons. It just happens as per their own understanding or assumption.
I catch items of such often online and IRL; Like last week at an NRA course a guy telling another bar carry is unlawful in MA, which is very much not true.

So with that do yourself the biggest of all favors and reference the laws first hand.
All you need is an ability to read, time and a keyboard...

GENERAL LAWS OF MASSACHUSETTS
CHAPTER 140. LICENSES.
M.G.L. - Chapter 140 - Table of Contents

Scroll down to "SALE OF FIREARMS" beginning with chapter 140 section 121.
All that is relevant to firearms and their possession as by current statute is found therein between sections 121 and 131P, which is many many pages of reading and study to memorize and know.

- Janq
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Not sure but I have a question for you since you live in Maine. I wanted to get a non-res for Maine, I already have NH, and PA but it says you need to submit proof of handgun knowledge. What does that entail for a Maine Concealed carry? What did you have to do to prove "handgun knowledge"?
I took a course and got other states permits. If I remember right, I just sent it a copy of the certificate and other permits I had at the time. Give the folks a call at 207-624-7210 and they would be able to direct you best. Here is the link for the application and state laws. Take care and Good Luck!:wave:

State Police: Licenses & Permits: Weapons Permits & Professional Licensing
 

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Thanks, I filled it out a couple days ago but I don't know where to take a class since Vermont doesn't require anything let a alone a firearms coarse. I have a hunting license and have owned firearms my whole life but have never taken a course besides hunters education. what type of coarse did you take, do you remember the name? I know other states like Florida require a coarse so I would like to kill more than one bird when I take a class any suggestions?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thanks, I filled it out a couple days ago but I don't know where to take a class since Vermont doesn't require anything let a alone a firearms coarse. I have a hunting license and have owned firearms my whole life but have never taken a course besides hunters education. what type of coarse did you take, do you remember the name? I know other states like Florida require a coarse so I would like to kill more than one bird when I take a class any suggestions?
I was wondering on that myself. I called the Maine State Police and they said that either you have to have a basic hand gun course (within the last 5 years), or if you were pervious military gun training that will fill the "Handgun Knowledge" requirement. I took a class when I was living in IL about 1-2 years ago. Perhaps a class in NH or MA would fill the requirements for ME and MA. I think that it is funny that I have used guns for 25+ years and have to re-train in MA, even though I can carry in 35 states. O well! Good Luck!
 

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Yep. ^^

MA does not recognize out of state BHE certs nor NRA type handgun use courses that are not instructed by a certified MA instructor as toward any of their arms permit (FID) or license (LTC A or B).

I'd run into the same issue when I first moved here as from VA.
I had a current resident CHP from VA and at that time many different course certificates including an NRA 'First Shots/Basic Pistol' cert as from a course taught at the NRA HdQ with as much actually stated on the paper certificate (!). I too had been handling and carrying guns for years prior.

No dice.

The only out I'd had though was that I had 11 yrs. prior possessed a MA LTC 'Sporting & Recreation' that had long ago expired. I had never thrown away nor lost that permit. My local PD by that changed my paper work from being a new application to that of a "renewal". Seriously. I couldn't believe it!

I'd spent close to $300 on a MA LTC-001 course at Smith & Wesson, which was well worth every penny IMHO!, and is about average for same type of _MA state police certified instructor_ specific course here in MA.

Meanwhile every other state I've applied to as a non-resident has accepted either my out of state certificates plural and/or my out of state permits plural toward their own applications.

- Janq
 

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Maineglock, when you submitted your birth certificate for your CCP did you send them a photocopy of the original
 
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