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Pathetic article. Suicide rates have nothing to do with the easy use of a firearm IMO.
Correct. Those who choose to die by their own hand have access to and have used any number of methods. Take guns from the suicidal and they will move to any of those other means.
 
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I actually do think ready access to guns inflates suicide rates. Very often the decision to end one's life is a spur of the moment thing. Research shows a few things; first, that men gravitate towards guns where women are more likely to use pills. Second, many people who are thwarted in their attempt very often don't try again. It's dry and academic but a good example is the use of coal ovens in England. A lot of people used them for suicide. When they went away the suicide rate declined.

Now before you all try to lynch me I would submit that it doesn't matter. Ultimately the only thing you have a reasonable claim to actually owning is your own life. Generally suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem but how can you make it illegal? And at what point do liberty and public safety converge on the graph? It's widely believed that a lot of fatal single car accidents are actually suicides, especially among younger males. So do we ban cars? Step ladders? Bridges over 20 feet high?

How much freedom can I reasonably be expected to give up in order to prevent you from ending a life you have every right to end if you wish?
 

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Telling that the author spent 15 yrs studying at Berkley and Cornell and he came up with an anti gun argument. SURPRISE.

Suicide by gun is NOT gun violence. It's efficient painless and if libs are in favor of consenting adults doing what they want then what is the issue with people using a gun to end their lives?
 

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Some truths to consider:
- The people in the psych field tell us that people who have decided to take their own lives will do so, regardless of the means. Absent a gun, drugs, razor blades, driving into a bridge abutment, hanging - all are common alternatives.
- Japan has effectively zero privately owned firearms, yet their suicide rate is 50% higher than that of the US - 18.5 per 100K vs 12.1.

Given those data, it's hard to conclude that the availability of firearms is related to the suicide rate in this country. Social and economic conditions, and availability and abuse of prescription and/or illegal drugs are likely more influential in the suicide rate than any particular means of offing oneself.
 

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The argument is basically the same as saying we should have a breathalyzer in every car. Yeah, there would probably be fewer deaths, but you can't have a free society if you assume everyone is an alcoholic. Same goes for suicidal impulses. The US isn't a giant rubber room.
 
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Some truths to consider:
- The people in the psych field tell us that people who have decided to take their own lives will do so, regardless of the means. Absent a gun, drugs, razor blades, driving into a bridge abutment, hanging - all are common alternatives.
- Japan has effectively zero privately owned firearms, yet their suicide rate is 50% higher than that of the US - 18.5 per 100K vs 12.1.

Given those data, it's hard to conclude that the availability of firearms is related to the suicide rate in this country. Social and economic conditions, and availability and abuse of prescription and/or illegal drugs are likely more influential in the suicide rate than any particular means of offing oneself.
Of course, on the flip side Japan's homicide rate is less than 1/4 of ours so I'm not that stats will settle this. Culturally the US and Japan are very different making it difficult to neatly remove guns and observe the difference. And from what psychology I have studied I think the opinion is just the opposite; suicide is often impulsively attempted. Men seem to 'succeed' at it more often because we choose surer methods (eg crashing our cars, shooting ourselves, etc). If the mood to end it all strikes one might act on it if they have the means, but if thwarted often they won't try again. Not to trivialize it but consider this- if you were craving a bag of popcorn late one night and there was on in the cupboard you may treat yourself. But if you had to go to the store and buy one first it might be too much trouble, especially if it's late, if it's raining, etc. Often the impulse to commit suicide is the same. I recall reading a snippet of an interview from a guy that survived a jump from a bridge (wanna say Golden Gate). I don't recall now if he hit a net or survived hitting the water but he claimed he just acted on impulse, and on the way down he realized he'd made a big mistake.

Ultimately to me it doesn't matter. I think we could prevent some suicides by banning guns but you could also stop car crashes by banning cars. But by and large we need cars to function in society and the same goes with guns.
 
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People are depressed? Take away guns. That'll solve it. At least it's easier to blame an inanimate object than to face the real problem.

Remember our previous president trying to sneak in back door gun control under the authority of the "affordable" care act? Progressives have been trying to get gun control under the EPA. It doesn't matter what the problem is, their solution is to ban guns.
 

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Of course, on the flip side Japan's homicide rate is less than 1/4 of ours so I'm not that stats will settle this. Culturally the US and Japan are very different making it difficult to neatly remove guns and observe the difference. And from what psychology I have studied I think the opinion is just the opposite; suicide is often impulsively attempted. Men seem to 'succeed' at it more often because we choose surer methods (eg crashing our cars, shooting ourselves, etc). If the mood to end it all strikes one might act on it if they have the means, but if thwarted often they won't try again. Not to trivialize it but consider this- if you were craving a bag of popcorn late one night and there was on in the cupboard you may treat yourself. But if you had to go to the store and buy one first it might be too much trouble, especially if it's late, if it's raining, etc. Often the impulse to commit suicide is the same. I recall reading a snippet of an interview from a guy that survived a jump from a bridge (wanna say Golden Gate). I don't recall now if he hit a net or survived hitting the water but he claimed he just acted on impulse, and on the way down he realized he'd made a big mistake.

Ultimately to me it doesn't matter. I think we could prevent some suicides by banning guns but you could also stop car crashes by banning cars. But by and large we need cars to function in society and the same goes with guns.
To your analogy about popcorn;

I think wanting to commit suicide would relate more to being hungry, and the popcorn would represent the gun. Meaning, if someone was craving a bag of popcorn (hungry/suicide), went to the cupboard and found nothing, they probably wouldn't just go back to bed hungry. They would probably grab a sandwich, apple, some chips, etc. The only way to keep someone from satisfying their hunger is to restrict them from eating anything, which is completely unrealistic IMO.
 

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Tobacco-induced suicide is successfully carried out to the tune of nearly half a million Americans annually, all of whom had years and years to reconsider their decision to deliberately take their own lives. Firearms suicides are a drop in the bucket in comparison.
 

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The argument is basically the same as saying we should have a breathalyzer in every car. Yeah, there would probably be fewer deaths, but you can't have a free society if you assume everyone is an alcoholic. Same goes for suicidal impulses. The US isn't a giant rubber room.
.........as of last November, I'm not so sure. :blink:
 

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Im going to ask the same question that I always ask when this comes up. Why do none of these people ever actually mention getting help for these people? All they want to talk about is how guns are the problem.

Another thing that I found to be interesting is the authors suggestion to store a gun locked, and/or unloaded, because suicide is "impulsive", yet it appears the people who are most likely to have a loaded gun on their person, as opposed to just being somewhere in the house are actually LESS likely to commit suicide than the average person. Massive errors in the Violence Policy Center's "Concealed Carry Killers" - Crime Prevention Research CenterCrime Prevention Research Center

Here is a study that touches on a method of suicide that does not always get reported as a suicide.
https://www.questia.com/library/jou...ident-or-suicide-single-vehicle-car-accidents
 

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Im going to ask the same question that I always ask when this comes up. Why do none of these people ever actually mention getting help for these people? All they want to talk about is how guns are the problem.
Because it doesn't fit the agenda. Helping suicidal people is complicated and can't be fixed with a "feel good" solution like more restrictions on firearms.
 

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If suicide prone individuals are apt to purchase a firearm 2 weeks or more in advance of doing the deed then how would keeping the firearm unloaded or stored away prevent them from offing themselves?

They already know WHY they purchased the firearm well in advance of the actual act.

Anybody contemplating suicide. Go volunteer at an animal shelter. Volunteer at any worthwhile location. You'll instantly discover that your life has value and then things can only get better from that point forward. :yup:

There are no shortage of places that will take your help for 3 meals a day and a bed to sleep on and you will meet new people and make new friends and nobody really needs anything more than that. Whatever else "good" comes from doing that is just icing on the cake.

Suicide is a selfish act and you do not want that to be the only lasting legacy that you leave behind. :nono:
 

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I actually do think ready access to guns inflates suicide rates. Very often the decision to end one's life is a spur of the moment thing. Research shows a few things; first, that men gravitate towards guns where women are more likely to use pills. Second, many people who are thwarted in their attempt very often don't try again. It's dry and academic but a good example is the use of coal ovens in England. A lot of people used them for suicide. When they went away the suicide rate declined.

Now before you all try to lynch me I would submit that it doesn't matter. Ultimately the only thing you have a reasonable claim to actually owning is your own life. Generally suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem but how can you make it illegal? And at what point do liberty and public safety converge on the graph? It's widely believed that a lot of fatal single car accidents are actually suicides, especially among younger males. So do we ban cars? Step ladders? Bridges over 20 feet high?

How much freedom can I reasonably be expected to give up in order to prevent you from ending a life you have every right to end if you wish?
Japan, with almost no guns in the civil population, has a suicide rate 1.5X ours in the US. They use rope, pills, household chemicals, high places, fast moving objects (bullet trains), and sharp objects. We in the US also have rope, pills, chemicals, high places, fast moving objects, and sharp things. And attempts with a gun are not always successful.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC478945/
A detailed analysis of suicide rates between 1960 and 1971 for England and Wales and for Scotland confirms that all age-sex subgroups have shown a marked decline in suicide due to domestic gas, corresponding in time to the fall in the CO content. After considering data on the effects of the International Classification of Diseases (ICD) Eighth Revision, accident mortality, some personal characteristics of coal gas suicides, and the use of coal gas in parasuicide it was concluded that a simple casual explantation was likely. Suicide due to non-gas methods has in general increased, markedly so in some groups. It was suggested that neither improved psychiatric services nor voluntary agencies could have produced such changes. The 'compensatory' trend of gas and non-gas suicide rates was indicated for certain age-sex subgroups. The continuing need for suicide research was pointed out, and questions were raised concerning the psychological meaning of the epidemiological data.
It's a complicated subject. The problem is more human than weapon used. Removing guns would lessen gun violence, but as criminals would remain armed, would not eliminate it. Gun violence is a subset of violence, and based on violence rates in UK nations, removing guns may just cause another form of violence to rise. Cricket bat (almost none in the US reported), golf club, multiple party home invasion in daylight hours, rape. I blame soccer and warm beer.

When the Aussies grabbed the guns, they reported a decrease in gun violence. That year, so did we, and about the same amount. We kept buying guns. They can not actually show where the gun grab saved any lives. They can show where gun deaths have diminished, but they never had many guns and never had many gun deaths, and we can show the same downward trend over time, even with the number of guns increasing markedly.
 

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When the Aussies grabbed the guns, they reported a decrease in gun violence. That year, so did we, and about the same amount. We kept buying guns. They can not actually show where the gun grab saved any lives. They can show where gun deaths have diminished, but they never had many guns and never had many gun deaths, and we can show the same downward trend over time, even with the number of guns increasing markedly.
Very true. Anti-gunners point to Australia as a model of gun control success but the fact is that their murder rate was already pretty low and the US experienced a similar decline in homicides at the same time. They also like to say that since their "ban" they "haven't had another mass shooting" while omitting the fact that they had really only ever had one to begin with. Locking the barn door after the horse has escaped is a better way to look at it.
 
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