[Euclidean]

Okay this is going to sound really weird... I'm finally getting around to developing some familiarity with that Sig 220, a traditional DA/SA decocker.

I've fired it a little bit just to confirm it "runs", which it does just fine, and in actual operation it's smooth. It's a well worn Sig for crying out loud!

But I've been trying to get used to the double action trigger with lots of dryfiring. It's a much cheaper way to work on a trigger pull I tell you what.

I'm used to double action revolvers (GOOD double action revolvers I feel I should specify) so I've always felt like there wasn't a trigger pull I couldn't master. After all, if you can work a Ruger revolver trigger, is there really a challenge to be had elsewhere?

But lordy, 20 double action pulls on the 220 makes my finger's pad go numb, and the sight picture doesn't stay the same either about halfway in.

Thankfully the single action is mercifully short, but that double action pull is something I am not used to.

The 625 is much easier in comparison.

 

[P95Carry]

Hard to compare Euc - the revo to the SIG.

I am still trying to hone my DA pull on the 226 - and 220 and 228 are of course pretty much same. I do feel tho that with time it does get easier - the transition tho is where probs can come, as you slip into the SA pull for the remaining shots.

In IDPA I invariably pull my first shot - usually left a bit and high but they still connect - just lose me a -1 or if real unlucky a -2.

Practice tho is the only way and tho dry fire is great - acid test and good for more practice, is live fire. I do that from leather - draw, fire one, decock and reholster. I am still working on it even now :smilez:

 

[Euclidean]

I find when you're learning how to use the gun for the first time, dryfiring an awful lot makes the most sense because you are overcoming the greatest initial problems. Live fire is always better, but when you're having trouble in dryfire with say the manual of arms, it's not time to step it up yet.

I like to be able to work everything completely by feel before I attempt any sort of training/class/range shooting.

 

[artz]

my s&w 1066 is a tad long and one you don't wanna half pull unless you want it to go bang.
The para's DA is lite and you can pull that trigger half way to home, you can feel that place (like revolvers)where you can keep balance if you want the hammer to strike or not. If I'm saying this correctly...

 

[BigEd63]

Both of my 226's and the 220 I owned didn't feel all that heavy. Pretty smooth and light compared to other DA/SA autos.

Maybe you ought to get some handgrip exercisers and work with them some. I've used them off and on for years and they seem to be a big help in shooting any type of handgun for me.

Or it could be just the ergonomics of the gun and your hand. I had some troubles with a Glock 20 in that regard. Not so much trigger pull but the grip profile would throw my follow through off and I'd shoot real low.

 

[acparmed]

I had that problem with both a 220 and a 226.

I sent them both off to SigArms to have SigLite night sights installed and asked Sig that while they were there to smooth out the double action trigger.

They complied and now both feel more like they should be, smooth and about 10lbs.

Sig service has always been top-notch with me.

 

[rfurtkamp]

What you're describing isn't normal for a 220 - if it's a CPO, I'd contact Sig.

 

[Bud White]

Seems my sig had a fair stiff double action also .. Since its not anywhere near the set up of a wheelie its not fair to compare it to one .

 

[crookcatchr]

For my P229, it's got a heavyish trigger pull, but not something that I don't like. Its smooth all the way though. Now the SA pull is rediculously light. But no complaints at all for my 229.

 

[QKShooter]

The SIG DA Trigger Pull

Is does seem like the SIG 220 DA trigger pull is excessively heavy. I've heard people say that for years.
Not too bad as long as it's smooth & not gritty.

I think the main cause of the "heavy pull" problem is that the Hammer Spring is somewhat heavier than it really needs to be in order to provide reliable ignition.
Just my opinion on that.

 

[Tangle]

Wait a minute. When I posted about modifying my G-17 trigger, everybody but QK started the "it's not worth it; trigger pulls don't matter; I'd rather have reliability; stock is better; can't out shoot the gun anyway, etc." Am I hearin' a different story now? Trigger pulls/equipment does matter? Just some friendly ribbin' guys, well and ok, maybe a bit of "I told you so".

My Sig triggers rival revolver triggers. 'Course my Sig triggers aren't stock. But if they are similar to good rev. trigs, is that bad?

But for a stock Sig trigger, I agree with rfurtkamp here; what you're describing doesn't sound quite right for a Sig, esp. a 220.

Maybe this would be an appropriate place to say this. We hear it over and over that reliability is the first and highest priority. But, the most reliable gun in the world will do you no good if you can't hit, and hit fast, and hit consistently with it. OTOH the easiest to shoot, most accurate gun will do you no good if it clicks when it should have gone bang.

Sig as well as other manufacturers offer carry trigger jobs - there's a reason they do. I'm not suggesting that everyone rush out and get trigger jobs done on all their guns so they can shoot them better. My dentist has a sign in his office that says, "You don't have to brush all your teeth, just the ones you want to keep." Maybe a spin off would be, "You don't have to get trigger jobs on all your guns, just the ones you would use to defend your life." :biggrin2:

 

[Tangle]

...I think the main cause of the "heavy pull" problem is that the Hammer Spring is somewhat heavier than it really needs to be in order to provide reliable ignition.
Just my opinion on that.

BINGO!! Plus a few other little things.

OK let me add this, do you realize that manufacturers, are now much more conscious of trigger pull weight? Consider the Sig DAO and DAKs. Sig puts a lighter hammer spring in their DAOs and made their latest trigger, the DAK, pull weight even lighter than the DAOs.

 

[Euclidean]

Man you guys sure are looking at this from a lot of angles... I figured I'd get about 4 responses telling me I was a weenie and needed to learn how to squeeze a trigger!

But honestly I feel it's me, not the gun. I think either A.) I am not used to it and it's all in my head or B.) I am doing something wrong. Some time I will load it up and take it along with other pistols with DA pulls and see if something is off.

It's no biggy... I have the Sig just because I can and at what I paid for it a little problem or two is not the end of the world. I don't carry it. For one thing I haven't even done a real reliability trial of any sort.

Any of you guys ever shot one of those P64's? It's not like that where the DA pull is 27 pounds and SA is 3 ounces. It's that repeated double action pulls are for some strange reason tiring when that's not the case with everything else I have with a double action trigger pull.

There's a local Sig armorer who could probably help me at a reasonable cost if it came down to that... I'm afraid to detail strip it, but I'll take it down and look at it when I get a moment to myself.

I do like it enough I'd pay to get it fixed up if it came to that.

I think it's the software and not the hardware... almost every problem with a firearm is the software...

 

[Euclidean]

Is does seem like the SIG 220 DA trigger pull is excessively heavy. I've heard people say that for years.
Not too bad as long as it's smooth & not gritty.

I think the main cause of the "heavy pull" problem is that the Hammer Spring is somewhat heavier than it really needs to be in order to provide reliable ignition.
Just my opinion on that.

I second Tangle's second... that makes the most sense to me.

The pistol is "sound", and honestly in the real world, it would work fine. I'm trying to pretend like I have to fire every shot in the magazine DA though.

I'm reading all this... I think I'm normal and so is my gun, we're just not used to each other yet.

Seeing as how this isn't a primary CCW piece though, I think it'll be fine to just try it like it is for a while. If it gets to be intolerable, I feel I can easily recoup what I paid for it.

 

[Tangle]

It may not be you Euc. The Sig 220 is a great gun; a Sig 220 with a good trigger is even better. If you can get a trigger job done locally, assuming they really know what their doing, and you don't have to pay for shipping, it'll be worth every cent for the trigger job.

Polishing will make it smoother, but won't do a whole lot to lighten the trigger, so find out what they do and what to expect.

Euc - "...I think it's the software and not the hardware... almost every problem with a firearm is the software..."

There's certainly a lot of truth in that, but in this case, I think you'll change your mind when you see what a difference a good trigger can make.

 

[Euclidean]

I'll take it to the local range sometime and hope a certain employee is on duty... don't remember his name but he swears by Sigs and he could tell if something wasn't right. I'll see if he thinks there's anything wrong with it... That's part of the problem, I'm comparing it to the CZ and the Ruger and not another Sig.

Heck for all I know I could have mud in there and don't realize it yet hehe.

Damn this may become a project gun...

"Hey can you guys work the kink out of this trigger?"

"Sure, that's only about $125."

"Hey that's great I'll have a custom Sig for $500..."

"But man it looks like hell. We'll refinish it for $225."

"Hmmmm can you hard chrome it, like a satin finish?"

"Sure, but if you're going to do that, you can't tell me you're not going to get Trijicons installed..."

"You know you're right, that would be stupid..."

Hmmmm maybe I should put it away until I've paid off some of my other little projects...

 

[Tangle]

...I'm trying to pretend like I have to fire every shot in the magazine DA though.

You say that like that's a bad thing or incorrect. If you carry it, and you have to shoot it to defend yourself, the first, ever so important shot, will be what? DA! If we carry DA/SA, we need to practice DA. It's so easy to avoid DA in practice. You load a mag, rack the slide, and you're in SA. It's conceivable that many that train with a DA/SA rarely if ever shoot it DA.

...I'm reading all this... I think I'm normal and so is my gun, we're just not used to each other yet.

Euc is normal? Euc is normal? Oh well, I don't have time and space to debate that. :biggrin2: But, that may be some of the problem.

...Seeing as how this isn't a primary CCW piece though, I think it'll be fine to just try it like it is for a while. If it gets to be intolerable, I feel I can easily recoup what I paid for it.

It will be a CCW if you get a good trigger job.

 

[Tangle]

I'll take it to the local range sometime and hope a certain employee is on duty... don't remember his name but he swears by Sigs and he could tell if something wasn't right. I'll see if he thinks there's anything wrong with it... That's part of the problem, I'm comparing it to the CZ and the Ruger and not another Sig.

Heck for all I know I could have mud in there and don't realize it yet hehe.

Damn this may become a project gun...

"Hey can you guys work the kink out of this trigger?"

"Sure, that's only about $125."

"Hey that's great I'll have a custom Sig for $500..."

"But man it looks like hell. We'll refinish it for $225."

"Hmmmm can you hard chrome it, like a satin finish?"

"Sure, but if you're going to do that, you can't tell me you're not going to get Trijicons installed..."

"You know you're right, that would be stupid..."

Hmmmm maybe I should put it away until I've paid off some of my other little projects...

LOL! "Projects" can spin out of control, that's for sure.

A new finish, night sights, won't make the gun shoot better; I promise you a good trigger job will. You owe it to your self just this one time. Try it - it will make a difference. It'll change your mind about it's role in your SD plan.

After shooting my 220 DA/SA in DA only, I discovered I shot it better DA than in SA. I changed my 226 to DAO thinking it would be the same effect - it wasn't. The 220 has got a better trigger system than a 226. Ernst Langdon says so too.

 

[Bud White]

To make ya happy Euc ... you a weenie and need to learn how to squeeze a trigger..

Qk is probley right of course most guns come oversprung now..

Like stock 1911's to heavy a mainspring

 

[Euclidean]

Okay there's a break in the case. I got a second opinion from someone who has a Sig and he told me in his opinion something weird was up.

I finally got some time this weekend and I field stripped it. I'm not brave enough to detail strip a Sig but I did get in there with a magnifying glass and bore light. Only I didn't find anything so I switched to my Surefire, which is much brighter.

Lo and behold, with the hammer in the cocked position, I could just barely make out the edges of a dark chocolate stain. I scratched a little bit of it off with the tip of a paper clip. It wasn't mud, it wasn't rust either, I have no idea what it was.

Decocking the hammer, I could suddenly see more of... well, it.

Working painstakingly, and using the edge of a sheet of paper to try to determine the depth of the stain, I realized that the reason I'd not seen it before was either I'm the one who put it there, or more likely because if I didn't have a 110 lumen light shining on it, I couldn't really see the stain effectively.

I have no idea what this substance is or was. The tiny samples I did recover felt like grease, only gummier. I got off as much as I could by manipulating the hammer with one hand and cleaning with the other. I made my way as deep in as I could with the edge of a piece of notebook paper. Each time I drew the paper out, it had stuff on it.

I sprayed the whole mess down with CLP and waited several hours (read cleaned Mom's pool for 6.5 hours) and went back to it and wiped out all the CLP. Then I gave it the Gunscrubber treatment, then wiped some more.

I made my best effort at it again today with the same process, and my fingertips are black. I mean no disrespect to our resident officers here, but this Sig was a former police gun and I am confident it was not treated well.

I think whatever that crap was, I dissolved it or else managed to scrape most of it out because it's WAY better now.

My theory is, whatever this crap was, it was left in the gun before the gun was sold to the shop that sold it to me, and the visible portion of the deposit was cleaned up in the shop.

Then when I cleaned it like normal, I either didn't notice it because it's dark and so is the frame, or because the visible portion had been wiped clean by the store.

Okay so then I shoot a few rounds, and lo and behold the hammer is going back and forth and smearing this crap on the frame like some kind of defective windshield wiper, and suddenly it's getting smeared and gooshed all in the works there and giving me a fit... okay end of theory.

I have no idea if some goo on the hammer between it and the frame could cause such a problem, but since cleaning it up the trigger is suddenly smoooooth.

I'm thinking though that at minimum, if I ever press this one into service, I should opt for a professional cleaning.