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You're going to use ammo that's designed to cause intentional increased injury and risk for death? Oh, you are so going to be sued by a hungry lawyer!:rolleyes:
 

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Love it when people always assume your going to be sued or found guilty cause of your ammo... LOL... the Lehigh defense ME rounds are neat but not worth the price to carry, I tested some into my gel and, they penetrated around 6" to 8" which was ok, but nothing as good as a regular ole Federal HST or DPX bullet... Id save your money and get something better ...
 

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Interesting...but i will stick with the tried and true major manufacturers for my defensive rounds..... That federal HST//winchester ranger/critical defense round didnt do squat to my body, the leaking holes are natural....said no BadGuy ever.......
Besides.... that is some pricey stuff, and with the cuts down the sides extending into the cases from what it looks like, I would be afrais that if a round caught the feed ramp it would peel it back.
 

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OldVet is indulging in a bit of mild sarcasm about the "effective ammunition ditherers."

Some worship at the altar of expansion. Some don't. I like the notion of throwing heavy lead and striving for good hits so any ammunition that touts itself as mega-super expando-matic while using lighter than standard bullet weights at higher than standard velocities won't get my attention.
 

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To echo what bmcgilvray is saying

I value penetration more than expansion.

I want my bullet carry enough energy when it goes into the target to hit the vitals.

So after shot placement I want penetration, expansion just makes the hole a little bigger which can help if you have poor shot placement
 
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To echo what pgras101 says.

There's nothing wrong with expansion. It's the gravy on the meat and potatoes of accuracy and penetration. It isn't however the main dish of the meal.
 

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OldVet is indulging in a bit of mild sarcasm about the "effective ammunition ditherers."
Drat . . . exposed! My primary concern is punching a hole of some sort where it needs to be punched. Any expansion is pure gravy.
 
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i shoot win. ranger, if it expands in the body, cool, if not, its still a .45 230g bullet hitting you with enough energy to make SURE you feel it.
 

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8" of penetration is not enough and I would not waste money on something that cannot do what I need it to do; that is, 12-17 inches of penetration. Once I have that, I would like as much expansion as I can get, but penetration is required while expansion is merely desirable.

If you haven't yet done so, you should read the full report on the FBI Miami shootout that led to these conclusions. It is a valuable lesson in tactics and bullet selection.
 

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8" of penetration is not enough and I would not waste money on something that cannot do what I need it to do; that is, 12-17 inches of penetration. Once I have that, I would like as much expansion as I can get, but penetration is required while expansion is merely desirable.

If you haven't yet done so, you should read the full report on the FBI Miami shootout that led to these conclusions. It is a valuable lesson in tactics and bullet selection.
This is why I wouldn't carry it as well, the penetration sucks due to its huge expansion, there are some testing videos of it on youtube right from Lehigh defense. Mike Cyrus with Lehigh Defense tests the 45ACP ME - YouTube
 

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Unfortunately, some of us old muddogs (LEOs & EMTs too) have seen the actual effect of a well-placed .45ACP FMJ. Double-tap to COM is more than enough to stop a threat.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Glad I didn't buy any ;) I think the general consensus is pretty clear.

What turned me off about this ammo? The gun shop guy was touting its "abilities" when it hits a "solid object like drywall". No expansion, stays in the drywall.

Really? That's a benefit? I've read so many stories about perps who hid behind walls only to be taken down.

I suppose if your that worried about your shots not penetrating the walls maybe?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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To echo what bmcgilvray is saying

I value penetration more than expansion.

I want my bullet carry enough energy when it goes into the target to hit the vitals.

So after shot placement I want penetration, expansion just makes the hole a little bigger which can help if you have poor shot placement
So. What do carry? In 9mm or .45.
 

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This stuff has two strikes against it - It's too light to begin with, and its "extreme expansion" will cause it to deplete what energy it does have way too soon. We all have our favorite loads, but the truth is that just about any of the premium defensive ammo from the major ammo makers will get the job done. I'm going to stay away from any of the "boutique" loadings, especially if it's light for caliber and it boasts "extreme expansion."
 

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I haven't put a whole lot of thought into the desire to shoot through interior walls. My thoughts about shooting through walls is more along the vein of being sure bullets aren't straying to places they oughtn't go.
 

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He who hits hard, and hits first, is all that matters.

With that in mind, I would rather have a cinder block in my hand than a pebble. What it does after smashing bones and perforating tissue is of no matter to me after that.
 
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