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Question: Do you observe those of us who favor OC in the CC section bashing CC?

No?

Then why are those of you who favor CC here in the OC section bashing OC?

BOTH modes of carry are lawful in MOST states, 45 for OC and 50 for CC (IIRC).
Bad ideas are just that, regardless of the sub-forum.
 

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Question: Do you observe those of us who favor OC in the CC section bashing CC?

No?

Then why are those of you who favor CC here in the OC section bashing OC?

BOTH modes of carry are lawful in MOST states, 45 for OC and 50 for CC (IIRC).
Look here; OC has been part of the constitution in my state since it was founded, so please don’t think you can give a lesson plan there.

And secondly, the OP himself stated his motivation behind his reason, so don’t even go there.

And thirdly, don’t be silly about bashing OC. You would have to get an awful damn tall ladder to climb in that saddle.

And, additionally, there was a time when this forum was only about “ Concealed Carry” and thus called “ Defensive Concealed Carry Forum”, so, you are just going to have to expect that many of the long standing members here joined before they even allowed the OC subforum, a decision I question to this day, but I ain’t the boss, so here we are dealing with this overzealous nonsense.

Nonsense such as wanting to OC for the purposes of intimidation or “ dont mess with me, I’m armed “ BS...which is really what it is.
 

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Bad ideas are just that, regardless of the sub-forum.
Yet again you bash OC as a "bad idea" while providing absolutely zero objective evidence to support your claim.

Constantly bashing OC in the OC section is just bad form, Mike. If you have a rational, intelligent argument to make, then by all means, make it. Please cite objective evidence applicable to the practice as a whole, rather than one-off anecdotal stories limited to outliers in the data.
 

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...Or try to make a new friend.

Ask him what he's looking for.
He'll either tell you honestly, or he'll understand that you're onto him and be warned off.

Just don't be confrontational.
Instead, be conversational.
Wise words. I try hard to keep cordial relationships with my neighbors.
 

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Yet again you bash OC as a "bad idea" while providing absolutely zero objective evidence to support your claim.

Constantly bashing OC in the OC section is just bad form, Mike. If you have a rational, intelligent argument to make, then by all means, make it. Please cite objective evidence applicable to the practice as a whole, rather than one-off anecdotal stories limited to outliers in the data.
You complain about the bash when those who disagree with your opinion express theirs. I'm expressing an opinion. No more to it than that.
 
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You complain about the bash when those who disagree with your opinion express theirs. I'm expressing an opinion. No more to it than that.
I rarely merely express my opinion. I explain why, often providing links to factual evidence, or at least logical discourse.

Your merely expressing your opinion in the negative is a "bash" and not edifying to the general populace of this forum.
 

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In all jurisdictions, a properly holstered OC firearm is either listed by law or has been ruled by state or federal court as not meeting the definition of "alarm," "intimidation," or "menacing." Even so, OC remains in violation of legislation in 5 states and D.C.

Reference St. John v. Alamogordo
I am not going down this Rabbit Hole again. The OP made his intent crystal clear.
 

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I rarely merely express my opinion. I explain why, often providing links to factual evidence, or at least logical discourse.

Your merely expressing your opinion in the negative is a "bash" and not edifying to the general populace of this forum.
"I make up my opinions from facts and reasoning, and not to suit any body but myself. If people don't like my opinions, it makes little difference as I don't solicit their opinions or votes." William T. Sherman
 
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Open carry is a horrendous idea because it places you in the position of having to be the person who's reacting. Whether it's to a gun grab or somebody calling the cops and telling them that you're waving your gun around in Walmart you've given the other person the initiative to make the first move.

There was a Facebook group a while back that was specifically advocating that if its members were to see somebody open carrying they should call police and tell the police whatever it takes to get them to come out and prone the guy out and teach him a lesson. I'm really surprised but Facebook did actually close the group.

When John Crawford was killed the 911 audio tapes prove that the guy that called in the report was lying. He told the 911 dispatcher that he was watching the guy load the rifle from a box of ammunition. Crawford was carrying a BB gun. The guy that called 911 later told his friends that he wanted to teach that racial expletive deleted a lesson. No charges were filed.

I suspect this behavior is going to become more prevalent. Especially for those to choose to open carry long guns.

If somebody does that to you your first warning may be when the cops show up and prone you out.

As far as gun grabs go, I don't care about statistic insignificance or outliers. I've had three people try to take my gun off me. That that was enough to convince me that open carry makes you a target . I will never open carry again unless I'm required to do so as part of my job assignment
 

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My neighbor from across the street came up to us as wife and I were leaving our project house. Evidently a new neighbor has been checking out the truck in the driveway and the house, several mornings from about 10 to noon. I may have to start open carrying when I go there to check the mail box across the street and work on the house.
what is displaying a firearm intended to do exactly? Of all the avenues which can be taken in an effort to manage whatever problem you suspect is afoot, why do you ( if thats the case) think this is a "gun situation"?
 

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Agreed on both counts.



This the most oft-quote bit of unsubstantiated hype against OC I've seen during the last decade I've seen both sides debate OC. To date, there remains absolutely zero statistically significant evidence that you're any more likely to be a target just because your firearm is visible, and considerable evidence to the contrary.

Thought experiment:

A robber spies to people walking along the sidewalks at opposite sides of the block. One is OC, the other isn't showing. Given known annual averages, he knows there's only a 1 in 85 chance the guy who isn't showing is carrying a firearm (yes, those are indeed national averages).

The robber:

A) Takes his chances with the guy he knows with 100% certainty is carrying a firearm.

B) Takes his chances with the guy he knows with reasonably certain only has a 1.2% chance is carrying a firearm.

Remember the old adage: "There are many fish in the sea." While tangle with a shark on one side of the boat when there's a tuna on the other side of the boat?

Robbers don't go after carriers in an attempt to procure a firearm. They put on their burglary hats and break into vehicles and homes, instead.

Out of all the guns used in Chicago's murders, what percentage of them were taken away from someone who OC's?

Exactly.
I don't know you but this statement sounds like something a person would say who has very little experience with criminals and is simply applying the logic typically employed by average law abiding people with good common sense. That may not be the case here but its the sense I get from simply reading these few words. I will say that violent crime is often very unreasonable and does not live within the nice little frame that you are seemingly trying to put it in.

Out of all the guns used in Chicago's murders, what percentage of them were taken away from someone who OC's?
how many citizen open carriers are there in Chicago? You may as well be looking for a unicorn

I consider a gun grab to be one of the least likely perils but it does occur with citizen as well as LEOs. Its a realistic concern which should not be short changed. Even a cursory search of the web will yield plenty of examples.

Man walking down State Street gets holstered weapon stolen
Gun stolen from open carrier at Walmart 12-2017
Man robbed of gun he was openly carrying- Newport News Va
Open carrier shot at by passing car
Louisiana man attempts to steal gun openly carried
Foodlion guard assassinated for his gun
Open Carrier attacked in wal-mart
Man Practicing open carry robbed of gun- Gresham Oregon
Open carriers gun stolen off his hip
Student robbed of openly carried firearm
Man stalked and attacked LEO for his openly carried firearm
Man Openly carrying his gun robbed at gunpoint
Man robbed of his gun at E.C gas station
Open Carry Gun Owner Robbed of brand new gun
Teens relieve dog walker of openly carried gun
Open Carry enthusiast robbed at gunpoint.
Man Proudly “open carrying” new pistol is robbed of it
Open carry individual robbed at gunpoint — Milwaukee
Medford Police responded assault and robbery , man reportedly followed to bathroom punched in face,.. firearm taken.
Man steals NYPD officers weapon, shoots deli clerk.
Man has shotgun ripped from his hands while investigating noise outside his home
Chatty smoker steals gun from open carrier
Man buying smokes gets openly carried firearm and holster taken

The idea that displaying a firearm is going to invoke some sort of trepidation or compliance is rather naïve unless a person knows exactly who and what they are dealing with. Law abiding people who use themselves as a template when trying to predict the actions of violent predatory criminals will often find themselves coming up rather lacking in their predictions.
 

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I don't know you but this statement sounds like something a person would say who has very little experience with criminals and is simply applying the logic typically employed by average law abiding people with good common sense. That may not be the case here but its the sense I get from simply reading these few words. I will say that violent crime is often very unreasonable and does not live within the nice little frame that you are seemingly trying to put it in.

I consider a gun grab to be one of the least likely perils but it does occur with citizen as well as LEOs. Its a realistic concern which should not be short changed. Even a cursory search of the web will yield plenty of examples.

Man walking down State Street gets holstered weapon stolen
Gun stolen from open carrier at Walmart 12-2017
Man robbed of gun he was openly carrying- Newport News Va
Open carrier shot at by passing car
Louisiana man attempts to steal gun openly carried
Foodlion guard assassinated for his gun
Open Carrier attacked in wal-mart
Man Practicing open carry robbed of gun- Gresham Oregon
Open carriers gun stolen off his hip
Student robbed of openly carried firearm
Man stalked and attacked LEO for his openly carried firearm
Man Openly carrying his gun robbed at gunpoint
Man robbed of his gun at E.C gas station
Open Carry Gun Owner Robbed of brand new gun
Teens relieve dog walker of openly carried gun
Open Carry enthusiast robbed at gunpoint.
Man Proudly “open carrying” new pistol is robbed of it
Open carry individual robbed at gunpoint – Milwaukee
Medford Police responded assault and robbery , man reportedly followed to bathroom punched in face,.. firearm taken.
Man steals NYPD officers weapon, shoots deli clerk.
Man has shotgun ripped from his hands while investigating noise outside his home
Chatty smoker steals gun from open carrier
Man buying smokes gets openly carried firearm and holster taken

The idea that displaying a firearm is going to invoke some sort of trepidation or compliance is rather naïve unless a person knows exactly who and what they are dealing with. Law abiding people who use themselves as a template when trying to predict the actions of violent predatory criminals will often find themselves coming up rather lacking in their predictions.
The criminally violent don't think like other people do. They have morals, ethics, scruples and goals, but those qualities are vastly different from the ones of the law-abiding. Violence is their vocation, and they treat it as such. Believing them to be inept, cowardly or otherwise dazzled by demonstrations of gun-packing bravado can, as demonstrated by the examples you cited, the formula for failure on the part of those who believe the gun to be a talisman that wards off evil.
 

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Open carry is a horrendous idea because it places you in the position of having to be the person who's reacting. Whether it's to a gun grab or somebody calling the cops and telling them that you're waving your gun around in Walmart you've given the other person the initiative to make the first move.

There was a Facebook group a while back that was specifically advocating that if its members were to see somebody open carrying they should call police and tell the police whatever it takes to get them to come out and prone the guy out and teach him a lesson. I'm really surprised but Facebook did actually close the group.

When John Crawford was killed the 911 audio tapes prove that the guy that called in the report was lying. He told the 911 dispatcher that he was watching the guy load the rifle from a box of ammunition. Crawford was carrying a BB gun. The guy that called 911 later told his friends that he wanted to teach that racial expletive deleted a lesson. No charges were filed.

I suspect this behavior is going to become more prevalent. Especially for those to choose to open carry long guns.

If somebody does that to you your first warning may be when the cops show up and prone you out.

As far as gun grabs go, I don't care about statistic insignificance or outliers. I've had three people try to take my gun off me. That that was enough to convince me that open carry makes you a target . I will never open carry again unless I'm required to do so as part of my job assignment
Here in Arizona we can do both OC or CC. And I do both. And as of now no one tried to take my weapon. your first warning may be when the cops show up and prone you out. What type of area do you live in?
 

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And as of now no one tried to take my weapon
That's sort of like saying that you have been riding a motorcycle without a helmet for 10 years and have not had a wreck. Its doesn't mean anything towards predicting or mitigating the potential for a person to have an accident. We simply concede that substantial numbers of people ride motorcycles and a good many of them have wrecks which may or many not have been their fault. Open carrying is a rather fringe mode of carry among an already small number of people who carry at all. I say this as a person who lives in an Open Carry State where hardly anyone open carries. I have had the occasion to observe 5 or 6 open carriers in a span of 30 years. I would say that the number of people who oc in this country who are not on-duty LEOs are miniscule and yet obviously they still manage to be targeted for their weapon. As I said previously, its a rather minor concern when weighing OC as a tactic but still, its worth being realistic the potential perils.
 

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It always seems to me that MOST, not all, people who are the most rabid about the practice of OC are somewhat frightened of other people and try to use the outward carry of the gun as a talisman of sorts.
 
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