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Discussion Starter #1
Hi. I just got my CCW in Missouri. I just had a question about the prohibited carry places in the law (MO 571.107). It looks this list is just a suggestion almost, and really doesn't carry the force of law unless you refuse to leave when asked. Am I right about that?

Section 1 subsections 1-17 list all of the typical places you can't carry (jails, polling places, schools, churches, casinos, etc) but then section 2 says, "Carrying of a concealed firearm in a location specified in subdivisions (1) to (17) of subsection 1 of this section by any individual who holds a concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 shall not be a criminal act but may subject the person to denial to the premises or removal from the premises." Then it goes on to say if you leave the premises when asked, you're basically fine.

Is this true? Can I carry in a school or church or anywhere and not fear for prosecution?
 

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Hi. I just got my CCW in Missouri. I just had a question about the prohibited carry places in the law (MO 571.107). It looks this list is just a suggestion almost, and really doesn't carry the force of law unless you refuse to leave when asked. Am I right about that?

Section 1 subsections 1-17 list all of the typical places you can't carry (jails, polling places, schools, churches, casinos, etc) but then section 2 says, "Carrying of a concealed firearm in a location specified in subdivisions (1) to (17) of subsection 1 of this section by any individual who holds a concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 shall not be a criminal act but may subject the person to denial to the premises or removal from the premises." Then it goes on to say if you leave the premises when asked, you're basically fine.

Is this true? Can I carry in a school or church or anywhere and not fear for prosecution?
You can not carry in a school or school function period without written permission. You can only carry on school property if you are dropping off a student and leaving. and this is only if you have a MO CCW.


steve
 

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I also live in MO, also have the same confusion has you. Not saying you are confused, but we can both agree we wish the law read more clearly. I have interpreted the section you have posted in the same way you have. I would never enter a correctional facility, police station, or government/federal building with my weapon concealed because I believe federal law prohibits weapons in these places. Not sure about the school issue, but I would not chance it. All other signs mean nothing to me. All other places, they must ask and allow you to leave before summoning LE, or at least they should. This is coming from a Jeff city police officer who was also my criminal justice professor. Although I love seeing responsible people open carrying, I choose to remain concealed at all cost. This is my first post ever. Have been browsing DCarry for a while, but when I saw you were from MO, just had to register so we can both get some more info. I honestly look forward to hearing others thoughts on this. If you live in Missouri, please add to this, I may be even more curious then the original poster.
 

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Also a MO resident. Don't have my CCW endorsement yet, but I took the class about two weeks ago. Just waiting on the sheriff. My understanding is similar to yours. There isn't a criminal penalty under Missouri law, but you're still subject to federal law. There was a CCW holder who was arrested for carrying (inadvertently) in the VA hospital in Columbia. Federal facility. You can also have your permit suspended or revoked if you're busted carrying where you're not supposed to more than once or twice. If you're not sure, leave it in the car. You're ok with the gun there pretty much everywhere.
 

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I Should have added hospitals. Wonder if it matters that it was a federal hospital or that it goes for all hospitals. Although, going to the hospital is never apart of my planned day. Hope your CCW comes quick trench, mine took only 15 days [Boone county], but that was before. Not that you should ever flee if LE is already there, but if you are still around when LE shows up (i'm talking about places not prohibited by federal law to carry) then you didn't leave when you where asked to.
 

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Don't break any Federal law and always leave if you are asked. It used to be a felony to carry on a bus or light rail but I'm not sure if it still is. I'd avoid it unless you can get a firm answer.
 

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That is exactly how it has been explained to me by a LEO and my instructors. Even if it is a place that is prohibited if you are asked to leave or remove the gun - just do it. You get in trouble if you won't leave and an officer is called. It is then a fine and warning. 2nd offense in 6 months is a larger fine and you lose CCW. I also believe that you absolutely CANNOT carry on any public transportation (I think because you are stuck there with people).
 

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Federal hijack law

That is exactly how it has been explained to me by a LEO and my instructors. Even if it is a place that is prohibited if you are asked to leave or remove the gun - just do it. You get in trouble if you won't leave and an officer is called. It is then a fine and warning. 2nd offense in 6 months is a larger fine and you lose CCW. I also believe that you absolutely CANNOT carry on any public transportation (I think because you are stuck there with people).

You can't carry on a commercial bus, or train in MO



steve
 

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The sign does not carry weight of law, BUT...

There are places where prohibited means prohibited, period. Without written consent, schools, churches... Any federal or state building totally off limits...

Surprisingly, the Zoo is not state property and there are no signs...

If a zealous LEO decides he wants to realllly bust someone he can pursue a charge for flagrant disregard if he can demonstrate that you know signage was up before you entered the facility. Can he make it stick? Who knows... Is it worth the hassle or do you just want to shop where no signs are present instead?

I just avoid the places with signs.
 

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From RsMo 570.107. (Subdivisions 1-17 are all the banned places, including schools.)

2. Carrying of a concealed firearm in a location specified in subdivisions (1) to (17) of subsection 1 of this section by any individual who holds a concealed carry endorsement issued pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 shall not be a criminal act but may subject the person to denial to the premises or removal from the premises. If such person refuses to leave the premises and a peace officer is summoned, such person may be issued a citation for an amount not to exceed one hundred dollars for the first offense. If a second citation for a similar violation occurs within a six-month period, such person shall be fined an amount not to exceed two hundred dollars and his or her endorsement to carry concealed firearms shall be suspended for a period of one year. If a third citation for a similar violation is issued within one year of the first citation, such person shall be fined an amount not to exceed five hundred dollars and shall have his or her concealed carry endorsement revoked and such person shall not be eligible for a concealed carry endorsement for a period of three years. Upon conviction of charges arising from a citation issued pursuant to this subsection, the court shall notify the sheriff of the county which issued the certificate of qualification for a concealed carry endorsement and the department of revenue. The sheriff shall suspend or revoke the certificate of qualification for a concealed carry endorsement and the department of revenue shall issue a notice of such suspension or revocation of the concealed carry endorsement and take action to remove the concealed carry endorsement from the individual's driving record. The director of revenue shall notify the licensee that he or she must apply for a new license pursuant to chapter 302 which does not contain such endorsement. A concealed carry endorsement suspension pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 shall be reinstated at the time of the renewal of his or her driver's license. The notice issued by the department of revenue shall be mailed to the last known address shown on the individual's driving record. The notice is deemed received three days after mailing.
 

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I'm moving to Mo in the near future. Is it truly a criminal offense for a ccw holder to carry on city buses?
Yes, carrying on public transport is a felony. This is an old law dating back to a time when bus hijackings were more common than they are now. There are people working to change this law, but for now, just don't ride public transport.

Section 578-305 Bus hijacking, definition, penalty--ass

Any passenger who boards a bus with a dangerous or deadly weapon or other means capable of inflicting
serious bodily injury concealed upon his person or effects is guilty of the felony of "possession and
concealment of a dangerous or deadly weapon" upon a bus. Possession and concealment of a dangerous and
deadly weapon by a passenger upon a bus shall be a class C felony
 

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I'm moving to Mo in the near future. Is it truly a criminal offense for a ccw holder to carry on city buses?
Yes, I believe it still is and it's a felony weapons offense. They keep trying to repeal the old law and amend it with one that states that no political subdivision can prohibit a concealed carry weapon if properly licensed, but I don't think they've done it yet. I'm sure you'll get that covered in your class though, so I wouldn't worry about it.

Overall the concealed carry laws are much more favorable over the laws in Texas, so unless you happen to be a bus rider or light rail user, you should be pretty happy with the move as far as CC goes.
 

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Like mentioned above, all the federal buildings etc I would leave your firearm in the vehicle, same with schools. Dropping or picking up someone and staying in the car should not be an issue, but I would NOT even chance walking into the school.

PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION is a NO NO. I have heard mixed reviews on this, but I'd rather not chance it. I have lived in St. Louis my entire life, and I have never been on a metrolink bus or train, so I could really careless, don't plan on riding one in the future either.
 

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Also a MO resident. Don't have my CCW endorsement yet, but I took the class about two weeks ago. Just waiting on the sheriff. My understanding is similar to yours. There isn't a criminal penalty under Missouri law, but you're still subject to federal law. There was a CCW holder who was arrested for carrying (inadvertently) in the VA hospital in Columbia. Federal facility. You can also have your permit suspended or revoked if you're busted carrying where you're not supposed to more than once or twice. If you're not sure, leave it in the car. You're ok with the gun there pretty much everywhere.
I took the class with a friend of mine. We both took our papers in and got fingerprinted at the Police Headquarters on the same day, I receieved my CCW paperwork to get my license about 2 weeks after the course, my buddy got his paperwork about a month later. We both have completly clean records, so we couldn't really figure why the delay on his papers.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
The sign does not carry weight of law, BUT...

There are places where prohibited means prohibited, period. Without written consent, schools, churches... Any federal or state building totally off limits...

Surprisingly, the Zoo is not state property and there are no signs...

If a zealous LEO decides he wants to realllly bust someone he can pursue a charge for flagrant disregard if he can demonstrate that you know signage was up before you entered the facility. Can he make it stick? Who knows... Is it worth the hassle or do you just want to shop where no signs are present instead?

I just avoid the places with signs.
I get federal laws. But the state law says explicitly that any of the places it specifies as off limits, including schools and churches, are off limits but are not law breaking. You have to be asked to leave and are only breaking the law if you refuse.

I wish the law was more clear.
 

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I'm moving to Mo in the near future. Is it truly a criminal offense for a ccw holder to carry on city buses?
Thank's Mixe and Tx. I'm not planning to use public transport, but what a whacky law. I'm glad to hear all the other ccw laws are reasonable though.
 

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I get federal laws. But the state law says explicitly that any of the places it specifies as off limits, including schools and churches, are off limits but are not law breaking. You have to be asked to leave and are only breaking the law if you refuse.

I wish the law was more clear.
The law is very clear. If you aren't breaking the Federal weapons laws, and you aren't on a bus or train, then basically any private property has the capacity to "ban" concealed firearms, however that "ban" really amounts to nothing more than asking you to leave if you happen to be caught. There's no criminal offense assuming you leave their property when asked. All the places that the statutes specifically require permission (church, etc.) before bringing a concealed carry weapon onto the property have the same non-criminal penalty if you are caught and are asked to leave.

It's actually a great set of laws. It protects any private property rights by always allowing the private property owner a legal vehicle to prohibit weapons if they so choose, but ultimately it gives greater protection to the Second Amendment because that "protection" really only applies if you get caught carrying and then it's not a criminal offense unless you try to stay on their property after you've been asked to leave.
 
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