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I think it was earlier this week when a convience store in Las Vegas was raided by 15 people, there was a video of it on the news, and they took beer, food, and totally trashed the store!

My question is, you are buying a pack of beer in the corner of the store when you turn your back to purchase the beer and you see all these 15 guys raided the store infront of you, feet away, one hand is on the beer carrying it, other hand is about to reach for wallet, but what do u do, your exit is blocked because you are in the back of the store and 15 people are stealing things all around you!
Do you take a chance and start shooting to scare them away?
Is it even legal to start shooting since they aren't necessarlily posing a threat to harm your life?

Me and my bro were discussing this last night, the segment was aired on FOX after M.A.S.H.
 

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With those odds - precious little you can do - other than be a good witness.

Of course if escape impossible and you are seen and then threatened - it'd be game on but again - not nice odds even if you with a gun.

Best would be to do a David Copperfield - and melt/disappear into any available cover :wink:
 

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I like the cooler idea, sit, watch, and wait
 

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1952 - 2006
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Ok guys, the news from ground level here is Vegas is this:

These 15 guys beat up on two gardeners outside the MGM. The entire attack is on video. After leaving the MGM they hit a 7-11 in the incident mentioned above also beating they hell out of some poor slob pumping gas. They then went to a Wally World and beat up a little old lady and stole her purse in the parking lot. Then they went to a park and shot a citizen in the leg. This is all the same pack of wild animals. Needless to say, they had quite a night.:yup:

The PD has identified all of them and has 3 under arrest. Attempted murder, robbery, etc. The rest are being rounded up to face the same charges.:congrats:

If I had been at the MGM and they came at me as they did the gardeners, I would have shot as many as I could until they scattered and ran away. If I had been at the gas pump and they came at me, I would have shot. Inside the store they are ransacking, no threat to life or limb. Let them go.

There is such a thing as disparity of force. Even if they aren't armed and you have 15 coming at you with intent to harm, I'm going to start shooting.:yup: :rant:

To paraphrase a line from "Tombstone", They may get me in a rush, but not before I make a few heads into canoes.:comeandgetsome:

LVMPD is appalled by this crime and is not going to let go of this. Most of the attacks are recorded on video, so the evidence is pretty overwhelming. It's my hope that soon "Bubba and Tyrone" will get to meet these upstanding young boys.:yup:

Actually I would prefer it were the old days here in Vegas. These guys would never have a chance to meet "Bubba and Tyrone" because in the old days they would have met "Vinnie and Guido" long before LVMPD had located them.:image035:
 

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With the addition of ACPArmed's info assuming I had just watched them stomp some poor guy pumping gas I would draw and fire until the threat was gone or I couldn't fire anymore.

In a more generic scenario posed where they appear to be just rampaging in the store but not threatening me or anyone else I would become a witness. Where I live shooting in that situation would be protecting property, not a life. Deadly force would not be allowed and I would be the criminal. Now in some jurisdictions in some states...the laws are different.

-Scott-
 

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Do you take a chance and start shooting to scare them away?
Is it even legal to start shooting since they aren't necessarlily posing a threat to harm your life?
Most emphatically NO! to both questions.

I hope these questions were asked strictly for the purpose of stimulating discussion.
 

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acparmed said:
To paraphrase a line from "Tombstone", They may get me in a rush, but not before I make a few heads into canoes.:comeandgetsome::
Amen.

These guys are trying to commit bodily harm and I think that its got to the point with these guys that the DA would justify most circumstances as a good shoot.

I'm sure the politicians in LV don't want to see tourism to Sin City go down because of fear of getting "swarmed".

Myself personally, would not open fire unless their attentions turned to me. I would definately find cover and probably draw. If I could, I would call 911. I like the retreat to the cooler idea or an alternative exit.
 

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My gun would be out of it's holster.

Doc Holliday said:
Amen.

I would definately find cover and probably draw. If I could, I would call 911.
I too would find cover. If they headed toward me, or started beating on a clerk I feel justified in shooting to protect the life of another. That's leagal here in MN, I am assuming it is in NV.
 

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This actually begs a response by those of you who only carry whats "in" the gun...or a small 6 shot revolver...would it cut it in this type of situation..??

Think about it for a minute and see what you come up with...
 

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AZG23 said:
This actually begs a response by those of you who only carry whats "in" the gun...or a small 6 shot revolver...would it cut it in this type of situation..??

Think about it for a minute and see what you come up with...
Grab a "hostage".:ticking: Yeah, you can debate the legality forever and a day, but there is historical precedence with LE. Given a gross disparity of force, threatening (or killing) a combatant to halt mass-assault is at least a reasonably defensible move. This also tends towards my personal prejudice that if one must carry a revolver- it should be steel. Start clubbing, and do it like you mean it.

I'm also curious about the guy pumping gas- he could have solved the problem then and there with a spontaneous A-hole bar-B-Q. Dousing someone with gas, with or without a lighter in hand, (I don't smoke, but do carry one) will generally convince them you aren't a good playmate.
 

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AZG23 said:
This actually begs a response by those of you who only carry whats "in" the gun...or a small 6 shot revolver...would it cut it in this type of situation..??

Think about it for a minute and see what you come up with...

Makes me feel a little better about the 17 round magazines I lug around (35 rounds total). I guess I have to though because my Px4 isn't quite the club a 1911 would be. :ahhhhh:
 

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For an update, the PD now has 10 of these upstanding young citizens in custody. :yup:

The DA says that he is going to add the 'Hate Crime, Gang Crime' enhancement to the charges against all of them which will double the penalties when convicted and sentenced. :congrats:
 

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acparmed said:
The PD has identified all of them and has 3 under arrest. Attempted murder, robbery, etc. The rest are being rounded up to face the same charges.:congrats:

LVMPD is appalled by this crime and is not going to let go of this. Most of the attacks are recorded on video, so the evidence is pretty overwhelming. It's my hope that soon "Bubba and Tyrone" will get to meet these upstanding young boys.:yup:

Actually I would prefer it were the old days here in Vegas. These guys would never have a chance to meet "Bubba and Tyrone" because in the old days they would have met "Vinnie and Guido" long before LVMPD had located them.:image035:
I can't decide which is best! Life as a "girlfriend" then you die of AIDS; or "sleep" in the desert! :ziplip:

AZG23 said:
This actually begs a response by those of you who only carry whats "in" the gun...or a small 6 shot revolver...would it cut it in this type of situation..??

Think about it for a minute and see what you come up with...


I did think about it.
:image035: I carry a Glock 17 with a second mag. Wife carries a Glock 26. Ditto. :35:
 
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