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Discussion Starter #1
For the past two years I've always carried with an IWB holster simply because it is so much easier to conceal. When I have spotted people carrying in public it's always been when their shirt rises up and shows some barrel/holster. I mostly wear an untucked oxford and with an IWB I feel really well concealed. I can draw well, and while I can't reholster with one hand: is this something a citizen really need to do? For a cop I can see why reholstering is critical, but for me I'm not sercuring anyone or patting people down.


Now I'm looking to take a "serious" CC course and from what I hear most instructors don't allow IWB holsters, is this correct?

If you think IWB are OK, what one would you rec for a glock 30? If you think I need to go to non IWB holster if I want to take a cobat course, what holster should I get for my glock in that case?

Thanks!
 

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never heard of a no IWB rule. Crossdraw has been ruled out in a lot of courses though.
 

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I belive i read somewhere that some schools are starting to get away from iwb due to ad's with a couple of lines of plastic pistols . Now just how this will help thier ad rate i dont understand but i think i saw something on it , my advise is contact the instructor/ school you decide on and if this is a deal breaker ( it would be for me ) go somewhere else .
 

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Mass-Diver said:
Now I'm looking to take a "serious" CC course and from what I hear most instructors don't allow IWB holsters, is this correct?

If you think IWB are OK, what one would you rec for a glock 30?
Thanks!
I have never heard of, or attended a course that did not allow IWB holsters. Most encourage you to use the holster that is your daily carry.
That said, you will want "one handed reholstering" capability in a class like that, as you will be presenting and reholstering your weapon countless times.
I carry daily with a Milt Sparks Versa Max II. I also use this holster for shooting schools and rangework. Works great.:biggrin2:

Good luck. :smile:
 

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Zundfolge said:
In my CCW class we never put our guns in a holster of any kind.
Ditto...and I took two CCW classes; one in VA via the NRA and a second in MA (renewal) via S&W.
No holsters were involved in either class although they were discussed in both and the NRA course instructors had various holsters to show & talk about.

- Janq
 

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Zundfolge said:
In my CCW class we never put our guns in a holster of any kind.
Must have been a short course? :smile:

I'd be mighty tired, not to mention the safety aspects as reloading mags while cradling the gun where (under arm, between legs, ? :nono: ) as you need 3 hands for this sort of operation!

I've taken mostly 3-day classes and holding your gun in your hand for 8 hours would be rather tiring!

Never heard of such a course, and I'd seriously worry about the safety of doing things this way.
 

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Janq said:
Ditto...and I took two CCW classes; one in VA via the NRA and a second in MA (renewal) via S&W.
No holsters were involved in either class although they were discussed in both and the NRA course instructors had various holsters to show & talk about.

- Janq
Were you folks shooting from a bench?

CCW, by definition starts from CONCEALED carry.

AFAIK, NRA doesn't teach CCW at all, they teach basic marksmanship and safety skills from a bench.

CCW and self-defense courses that I've taken (4 in last 2 years) all had us shooting on the move, up close to the targets. We were usually 40-50' in front of the shooting benches on the range.
 

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LenS said:
Were you folks shooting from a bench?

CCW, by definition starts from CONCEALED carry.

AFAIK, NRA doesn't teach CCW at all, they teach basic marksmanship and safety skills from a bench.

CCW and self-defense courses that I've taken (4 in last 2 years) all had us shooting on the move, up close to the targets. We were usually 40-50' in front of the shooting benches on the range.
I'm well aware of the definition of CCW and yes, the shooting component (day two) was entirely from the bench and shooting either our own firearm (NRA..I qualified with my Sig GSR which is stated on the certificate) or .22 caliber pistols (S&W).
NRA definitely teaches CCW and it's a state certified course both in VA (which I took just over a year ago) as well as in MA. I took the NRA course at their HdQ in Chantilly, VA where I lived prior to moving to MA and taking the S&W course just this past November.
I didn't have to take the second course as I was a MA renewal but I choose to do so just for the updated legal information as my MA LTC had prior expired in '99 to which laws were different than today.

There was no shooting on the move etc. with either class.
In fact most had issue hittng the target at 25'. Shooting on the move or at longer distances would not have worked for these folks the majority of which in both classes were absolute gun newbies.

- Janq
 

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Mass-Diver,

The (4) self-defense tactics courses that I have taken over the last 2 years allowed IWB. Some carried that way, some OWB but it was the shooters choice. These courses were taught by Jim Crews, Randy Cain and Gabe Suarez and were all run in Tyngsboro MA.

If you want to attend such courses in the MA/NH area, they are being run by friends of mine (I have no involvement in their venture) and details can be found at www.neshooters.com

Further local events and training (in addition to the above), plus some of the trainers are posting info on their offerings, etc. on a local (New England forum) at www.northeastshooters.com

This is the best forum for CCW issues. I hope to see you in both places.
 

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I think that because the NRA Basic Pistol course is used by many states as their "CCW Course" you will find that many people did not perform any holster or shooting while moving training. I know the NRA Basic Pistol Courses I taught in VA did not have either of these components. This is normal. I do not believe the folks that are saying that their CCW course didn't teach them this have been to any high speed low drag training outside of the NRA Basic Pistol course. There are always exceptions, but this is my definite impression.

-Scott-
 

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Agreed Scott...that is likely the differential here.

For example S&W in MA offers extended/higher level CCW courses which do support holster work although they all require either an LTC or proof of having passed a basic CCW course.

- Janq
 

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Mass-Diver said:
Now I'm looking to take a "serious" CC course and from what I hear most instructors don't allow IWB holsters, is this correct?
I would strongly suggest inquirying about equipment requirements directly with the folks who are providing the training. Up here in the NW, FAS requires either a range or concealment holster of good quality, worn on the belt. Cross draws, ankle rigs, and shoulder holsters are frowned upon as they easily allow for sweeping other students/instructors.

Mass-Diver said:
If you think IWB are OK, what one would you rec for a glock 30? If you think I need to go to non IWB holster if I want to take a cobat course, what holster should I get for my glock in that case?
Holsters are so subective that I wouldn't even try to recommend to another. Are you thinking leather or Kydex? Hi ride or low ride? This can narrow the choices but in the end you will have to experiment to discover what works for you personally. The G30 is a fairly heavy pistol, so whatever choice you make be sure to include a good gun belt.

I carry a G26. After trying many different holsters, I fiinally settled on a Galco Summer Comfort for IWB and a Blade-Tech for OWB. These work for my build and habits. YMMV.

-PB
 

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Scott, you are due a big "THANK YOU!" for clarifying something.

I think we (collective "we") were talking two different "languages" here in this thread.

Some were referring to CC courses, meaning NRA training in basic shooting and safe gun handling. [i.e. Courses needed to get a LTC or CCW License.] Newbies just learning to handle a gun should NOT (IMNSHO) be moving while shooting, nor should they actually be carrying a gun until they take some additional training that involves shooting from a holster and shooting on the move . . . but this comes only after a certain competency and comfort-level with gun handling first.

Some (myself) were referring to actually learning how to defend your own or a loved one's life!

They are very different animals.

At least in CC.com, I suggest NOT using the term CC courses to mean anything other than true defensive tactics courses, to help avoid confusion.

Unless you are very friendly with the NRA type instructors, you will likely find that they prefer to supply the guns/ammo/etc. (no holsters) for their basic courses.

For true CCW courses (as I defined it), you must bring your own gear and should bring what you'd wear on the street. Part of that training is to see what works and what doesn't, so if you ever had to use it, you'd know that your setup would actually function as required.

As for true CCW courses, as Gabe Suarez put it best . . . if you are still standing in the same place after you shoot the bad guy that you were at when you drew your gun, you WILL get shot! You must move, and move laterally or diagonally to stand a chance of "winning" and walking away without holes in you. BTW, as someone who worked for a PD for 18 years, MPTC doesn't train officers to move while shooting to this day in MA!! [There may be some advanced tactics training that does, but this would only be taught to SWAT or other specialty units, not the "cop on the street" here.]
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thanks to everyone for the feedback.


I'm considering an kydex IWB holster right now. My current holsters are just the plain Uncle Ben's cloth IWB - which worked well for some of my thinner, lighter pistols, like my PPK. But with the heavy G30, I want a really secure system and one that gives me some hope of being able to reholster with one hand. I understand that kydex is noisy, but I want a really secure holster (without resorting to anything I have to unclip before drawing).

Any have a favorite kydex IWM and a nice tactical belt to go with it (one that does not screem GUN)?

Thanks again to all.
 

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No matter what the course is called if they didn't teach drawing from concealment, if all the shooting was done from a bench, it wasn't a Concealed Carry Course. By definition a CC course has to teach students how to actually use a concealed weapon.

If a state designates a basic pistol marksmanship course or basic handgun safety course as their CC certification course, that's just bureaucratic stupidity. If they're going to force people to take a class they might as well pick one that teaches them what they need to know.

I'm well aware of the definition of CCW and yes, the shooting component (day two) was entirely from the bench and shooting either our own firearm (NRA..I qualified with my Sig GSR which is stated on the certificate) or .22 caliber pistols (S&W).
NRA definitely teaches CCW and it's a state certified course both in VA (which I took just over a year ago) as well as in MA.
 

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Typically the states do NOT want you to defend yourself and use your gun, that's why they pick courses which are good on safety (you need this first anyway) but nothing to do with actually using a gun for more than target practice.

In MA, if you use the gun to defend yourself, there is ~90% chance that you WILL be arrested and charged, have to stand trial, and just maybe you will get off and maybe you will do time. That's just "life out here" where the common belief is that "guns cause crime" and that the gun is responsible, ergo bad guys go unpunished (slap on the wrist) where the good guy gets jammed up bad.

At any rate, consider the NRA courses like "passing the written exam" for a DL . . . now you need training and practice on how and when to use it in the real world (outside of target shooting, which is also fun, but isn't CC/self-defense).
 

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Both the Gunsite and Thunder Ranch would be in a bind telling a student not to wear IWB as most of the instructors carry that way. I can see Jeff Cooper visiting a class with his 1911 in a IWB telling students to use belt holsters. Why would reholstering be an issue with IWB as compared to OTB? Unless your using a cheap holster that colapses when you draw and OTB's do that too. We run 1000 rounds a day of training, and AD's are VERY rare (as it will prob cost you your job if you do) and we just instill finger in the index position and thumb on the slide when holstering.

Steve
 

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Discussion Starter #20
No IWB......

I'm glad to learn that the no IWB rule is an exception. This place was high on my intial list: http://www.agguns.com/ their combat course specifies no IWBs :(


I'm going to looking into Lens list and get some feedback on the S&W school
.
 
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