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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Some may want to argue with the following, but I am just stating facts. People should believe, and do, what they want.

When I took an SD Law class put on by Arsenal Attorneys, a gun rights law firm, the former prosecutor who taught the course said there we two things that a prosecutor can use to get an SD defense defeated. All experienced prosecutors know this, but you won't find it in any law book or statute. One of those things is "moving toward the danger." SYG is one thing. No duty to retreat. But advancing to a fight can get you in trouble if the prosecutor spins it the right way. It can demonstrate to a jury that you wanted to be in the fight.

CCW Safe just put out an email to members basically saying the same thing and citing cases where "leaving a place of safety" to get in a gunfight has landed people in prison in cases where SD was claimed. Sure, there are exceptions to everything. We can all think of times where advancing would be justified. But we should know we are moving into ambiguous territory if we do. Just something to think about.

Personally, I don't want to be "Tried by twelve OR carried by six." They are both awful outcomes.
 

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just out of curiosity, does this person practice law in a state where defense of 3rd party is not covered under the law?
 

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The CCW Safe email gave 3 actual examples including one involving a police officer. In any self defense encounter, there are very few absolutes. One should really be clear about how to approach various SD situations and ALL forms of jeopardy that may result, including the potential for jail time post shooting.
 
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It depends.

Charging out of your house, armed, to break up a fight in the street--probably not a good idea in any state. Charging into a grocery to stop an (Forgive me, Lord for saying this) active shooter killing people--I doubt any prosecutor would bother you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
just out of curiosity, does this person practice law in a state where defense of 3rd party is not covered under the law?
No, it is VA and we have defense of a third party. But that is yet one more reason defense of a third party is problematic She outlined some others that were pretty daunting also.

Look, she wasn't saying never do a third party defense, nor was she saying never move toward danger. She was just saying know what you may be getting yourself in for. She didn't like it and I don't like it, but it is worth knowing.
 

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How would going on offense towards a fight be considered self defense unless it was to aid in the defense of a person ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
As the y should, It's their job ; )
H/D
If they are looking to keep me out of trouble, you're darn tootin' it's their job. I will take all the help I can get.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
How would going on offense towards a fight be considered self defense unless it was to aid in the defense of a person ?
Say that again?

People have gone on offense in situations and claimed self defense of themselves and have gone to prison for it. That is the point of the thread. We read cases about it all the time. One of the CCW Safe examples was a guy who went out on his porch with a gun to confront a threat and wound up shooting him. The homeowner is now in prison for murder.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
It depends.

Charging out of your house, armed, to break up a fight in the street--probably not a good idea in any state. Charging into a grocery to stop an (Forgive me, Lord for saying this) active shooter killing people--I doubt any prosecutor would bother you.
No, probably not. The point is just there is a legal "gotcha" out there worth being aware of.
 

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it is a blanket suggestion and general warning.....probably more along the lines to discourage folks from playing clint eastwood more than anything else...

it can easily be "what if" several ways to change procedure....
 

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just out of curiosity, does this person practice law in a state where defense of 3rd party is not covered under the law?
I probably wouldn’t arrest on it myself, but there is a difference between having an incident happen in your lap where you have to defend yourself or a 3rd party... And going looking for the 3rd party to defend.
 
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In some places, people are getting damn tired of letting spree killers go about their business unchallenged.
 

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Say that again?

People have gone on offense in situations and claimed self defense of themselves and have gone to prison for it. That is the point of the thread. We read cases about it all the time. One of the CCW Safe examples was a guy who went out on his porch with a gun to confront a threat and wound up shooting him. The homeowner is now in prison for murder.
Confused I guess. You wrote “ advancing to a fight.” Just trying to picture a scenario with a fight in progress that I could claim self defense if I advanced towards a fight iI wasn’t involved in.
 

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So it's better to move away from danger / go to a place of safety. That sounds legit to me. But if the danger moves to my place of safety then I will have to mag dump on the danger.
 

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I probably wouldn’t arrest on it myself, but there is a difference between having an incident happen in your lap where you have to defend yourself or a 3rd party... And going looking for the 3rd party to defend.
There is for sure. I was just curious because in a lot of places, if you witness a situation where deadly force is justified, you’d be justified in using it even if someone else is the victim. Situations you mention about going looking for something I could see resulting in criminal charges.
 
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