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I have now read articles in Reader's Digest and SWAT magazine about a violent gang known as MS-13. The short version is, this is an especially dangerous, violent gang that is spreading across the US.

One incident reported in Reader's Digest was a senseless killing of a an innocent victim - maybe the wrong place, the wrong time, etc.

We may very well face a new enemy, and perhaps the most dangerous of all. According to the articles, all it takes is the "wrong" look or word, or nothing to provoke an attack.

We've often discussed which SD gun, etc. is appropriate. Now that it appears that the prevalence and proliferation of such a bold, violent threat first raises our risk(s) of a violent confrontation and second, if it does happen, it will be against multiple ruthless assailents.

Maybe this is a good time to re-assess what gun/ammo, etc. we want to carry for self-defense.
 

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True, but it's also a good reason to evaluate what's in your gray matter at the same time.

Do you understand the street significance of the number "13" for instance?

Do you know what a "gat" and a "fly" are?

Do you know what it means to split your index finger from the rest of your hand and hold it against your chest, pointing down at a 45 degree angle?

When someone calls you a "punto" do you know what that means?

If you see a pitchfork spraypainted on a fence what do you do? Well I'm not sure what the pitchfork means exactly, but I'll find out. In the meantime I shift into condition orange and make haste to leave the area.

Learning to recognize this crap when you see it is just as important if not more so. Your situational awareness and ability to pick up on cues will come in handy.

Also, keep in mind the MS13 thing has spawned a lot of wannabes, which can be just as dangerous as they feel like they have something to prove.
 

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We've got the real deal operating just six blocks from my inner city high school. They are no joke. Go up against them and not only will they kill you but your entire family without hesitation. They won't back off (ever). Should you be so unlucky to be forced into a situation where you must testify against them...well they are known for their intimidation/elimination of witnesses. They rarely travel alone. So in a confrontation it will almost never be just one assailant. The locals and feds just recently arrested 25 or so of them right here in Miami. There are more...just like cockroaches.

I would at almost any cost try and avoid contact with any of them. I don't think I'd care to speculate the outcome of a confrontation I might have if it were forced on me. I think my mindset would be: Total War in a nutshell. My guess is that they'd be less likely to anticipate an average citizen here in liberal la-la land Miami FL as having some actual self defense skills including skill at arms. That might give me an edge. Maybe.

In any case, I'll not change my carry habits: Always a gun whose caliber starts with a "4" and carry at least one spare mag. Currently my USP (full size) 45 and one sp 12rd mag. Constant state of yellow alert.
 

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ExSoldier762,

That's just scary!!!!!!
 

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The MS-13 BG's can be fought and fought effectively. Our goverment has the means to all but put their kind outta buisness. All the prez has to do is turn the right people loose with very few rules of engagement. It's akin to the flow of illegal's coming accross the Rio Grande every night. I say,"If we REALLY wanted to stop it......... WE COULD.!! ---------
 

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I've had the "pleasure" of dealing with MS-13 when I was in the fire and rescue service in Maryland.

To echo what ExSoldier762 said - they are ruthless, and they frequently target police and fire/rescue as well as any witnesses. They also target random bystanders, either out of boredom or as an initiation.

They favor edged weapons, and frequently cut off hands / fingers. All in all, not a warm and fuzzy crowd.

Matt
 

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RSSZ said:
The MS-13 BG's can be fought and fought effectively. Our goverment has the means to all but put their kind outta buisness. All the prez has to do is turn the right people loose with very few rules of engaugement. It's akin to the flow of illegal's coming accross the Rio Grande every night. I say,"If we REALLY wanted to stop it......... WE COULD.!! ---------
Rule #1 - if in the course of border duty, one apprehends an individual with the number 13 tatooed on their forehead, shoot them between the 1 and the 3 and leave them for the vultures.

Matt
 

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RSSZ said:
The MS-13 BG's can be fought and fought effectively. Our goverment has the means to all but put their kind outta buisness. All the prez has to do is turn the right people loose with very few rules of engaugement. It's akin to the flow of illegal's coming accross the Rio Grande every night. I say,"If we REALLY wanted to stop it......... WE COULD.!! ---------
BINGO!!

Wish I was in charge of deciding where my tax money was spent..:saevil:
 

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Glock 18 or FN 5.7
 

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Ron - yes this group is fearsome - and they are getting everywhere. I believe they are well established as close to me as VA.

Avoidance is priority - if only because of the aftermath of any confrontation - even if you were to ''win'' round one! They are unscrupulous, evil and IMO the only way to deal with them is actually not technically legal!

A concerted effort could wipe them out but I don't see that on the horizon - tho over time I suspect very serious measures will be made unavoidable. Left unchecked they will thrive and prosper.

I feel very much for LE agencies who have to try and deal with them - they are on thin ice and highly vulnerable.
 

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gangs like this have been out there literaly for decades , only now is mainstream press touting them . in OUR day to day lives ( assuming we dont deal drugs or hang with that crowd) we dont have a lot of chance of actualy running afowl of them ( IMHO ) true we can be in the wrong place at the wrong time , but its as likely as being struck by lightning , and if it happens shoot them to the ground just like anyone else , possibly looking at moving after the dust settles to preclude retrobution sad commentairy of our scociety but a fact of modern life
 

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Redneck Repairs said:
gangs like this have been out there literaly for decades , only now is mainstream press touting them . in OUR day to day lives ( assuming we dont deal drugs or hang with that crowd) we dont have a lot of chance of actualy running afowl of them ( IMHO ) true we can be in the wrong place at the wrong time , but its as likely as being struck by lightning , and if it happens shoot them to the ground just like anyone else , possibly looking at moving after the dust settles to preclude retrobution sad commentairy of our scociety but a fact of modern life
Yes and no. Have a fender bender along the 550/160 stretch in CO with a minivan full of illegals, and MS could be all over you: they're running "interference" sometimes. The only suggestion I would have is to gather up the IDs for the use of any rough friends you may have, before the cops pick it up. If you don't have any friends of that sort..... Fake nombres, but real, using, addy's is fairly common.
 

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True RR - there have been gangs for decades but IMO I respectfully disagree in part - in as much as it would seem this is above and beyond what may have been in the past. These guys put the Cripps into the shade.

I have not actually learned all that much from mainstream media, having had to explore via the web to find out a lot of info. It is from my perspective still a low profile thing re media coverage - probably to avoid scaring people.

In some areas I suspect it may be less than easy to avoid them plus - as I said earlier, should anyone have to fight for life against them and survive - it would be an unpleasant and very stressful excercise to know for sure that you were remaining under their radar.

However we individually regard them tho - compacency is certainly not to be recommended!
 

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Rob 72 i live 1 mile off hwy 160 and 287 junction in colorado, with a liquor store next door , its a rare weekend i dont see the vanloads of illegals in my driveway ( my commercial property sets between me and the liquor store ) since we are the gas/booze stop here . i have had to explain the concept of private property a couple of times but all i have delt with ( yes many sport prison ink ) seem to be real willing to just go on down the road given the oppertunity to
 

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Many of the MS13 are very well trained in guerrilla warfare, team assault and psychological tactics, thanks to Uncle Sam. In the early 80's the C.A.T.T. (central american training team) program was highly successful in training these "oppressed citizens" to create terror and mayhem against their government. Many of these tactical civilians were then given asylum in the L.A. area, where they trained other Salvadoran refugees in these tactics and dispatched them to other cities as teams.
You just never know, do you....
 

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Cleaning, I am gonna have to disagree with you to an extent. Although Mara was founded by those who were involved in the Salvadoran war, they are now in their 40's and away from the street leaving the dirty work to the young ones who are not trained in those tactics but just plain ruthless SOB's.
 

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It would make sense for the older members to pass on at least some of their training, and they are the ones still planning ops.

Also, many gangs are sending junior members into the various branches of the US military so that they can pick up useful skills like demolitions, armorer experience and training with military smallarms.
 

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guys these folks are genuine bad news, how ever out of their bario they like all of us get insecure, we don't go to their element so our contacts are different from the homicide story's you read on them , like most criminals they conduct their criminal activity's in an envelope of familiarity , they don't drive to the suburbs to commit murder and mayhem , unless you are unlucky enough to live in close proximity ( like a couple of us who have posted on this thread ) then their proclivity for violent crime is a non issue , i see illegals all the time ( not necessarily these folks ) and due to " playing the game my way " ( i donut shortchange cautions ) the encounters have all been one sided and pleasurable from my standpoint . and the sight of the kids when they get handed a " trick or treat " bag to share is worth a lot , i am not saying that 13 is not a danger , i am just saying that like most criminals they tend to hunt in their own environment's , not go looking for mom and pop q public to victimize , and not all illegals have any criminal intent ( my last name is keenan so i ain't a shill for Mexico or illegals , but i lived in the southwest all my life and most just want our $$ and are willing to work long hours for them )
 

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Miggy, Salvadore is home to thousands of soldiers trained by CATT through the 80's. Some of the U.S. trained are only in their early 30's because they were trained as teens. Inturn, they have been training their own ranks since the early 90's. It was a handoff of sorts. The OGs that started in L.A. still bring these new members into Mexico and the U.S. today. Don't be too surprised to see strong numbers right there in Miami.

Besides, those feeble old guys in their 40's couldnt possibly organize crime operations. You know, senility and all. Its the same reason Japanese and Russian organizations only allow kids in their 20's to run the crews and make their business decisions.
:wink:
 

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RSSZ said:
The MS-13 BG's can be fought and fought effectively. Our goverment has the means to all but put their kind outta buisness. All the prez has to do is turn the right people loose with very few rules of engaugement. It's akin to the flow of illegal's coming accross the Rio Grande every night. I say,"If we REALLY wanted to stop it......... WE COULD.!! ---------

Umm... what happens when the next "Prez" decides that the current threat is all private gun owners? Or all Bible readers? Or all left handed redheads?

I'm sworn to support and defend the Constitution above all else, and I take that duty seriously. These threats must be dealt with, but we must do so within the law. If agents of the government can just assasinate anyone they feel is a danger without due process of law, how are they different than MS13?

Now as for the border problem, that's a different kettle of fish. I think that we're one of very few countries that view the defense of their borders as a law enforcement problem, and not a military problem.
 
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