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I saw NASCAR driver Mike Wallace and his daughter interviewed on the news this morning about an incident that happened after a Rascal Flatts concert at PNC Pavilion in Charlotte this past Friday night. I thought it was worth discussing here because this was an incident that I don't think my SA would have seen coming, because there was nothing leading up to it. All the conversations before the attack were cordial. Alledgedly this group of three has done this to people before.

So the deal is, it's a gun free zone. Even if Mr. Wallace had a gun, he was out cold before he knew what was going on. Also, he has recently had triple bypass surgery, so he is clearly in mortal danger. Obviously, if his family were armed, that would be different, but they would have been on the wrong side of the law. No warning leading up to the attack. Multiple attackers who apparently just like to beat on people, no robbery motive. The attack continues even after the BGs have clearly "won." They don't care about witnesses and will even attack them.

So I know a lot of you will say, "I would never put myself in that situation." I get that. I wouldn't either. So let's not waste posts on that. The hypothetical is you are in that situation however you got there. What might tip you off in advance if the conversation is cordial? If you didn't go out cold on the first punch, what would be your tactics? What could be legal weapons of choice?

I'm thinking if I am down on the ground, getting beat on by multiple guys, all LTL options are out. If I don't have a gun, I'm thinking a small fixed blade, easily accessable when I am curled up in a defensive ball. Then I start stabbing and slashing rapidly and repeatedly at every bit of flesh I can get to, using my non-knife hand to keep anyone from grabbbing my knife hand. Also kicking any target I can find.

Thoughts?

Mike Wallace offers chilling account of brutal beating | NASCAR | Sporting News
 

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I am of the opinion that if you continue to live life while enjoying some of the things life has to offer, there is always some risk involved. Leaving a Rascal Flatts concert would not normally be considered a high-risk thing to do. And if you are knocked out cold before having any chance to respond, what can you do?

Assuming I had the ability to fight back, I would have to give it my all, win or lose. I don't know that there is a correct response for all possibilities.
 

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I've spouted off about me being a trained fighter enough times on this forum I don't need to regurgitate all of it.

Suffice to say I'm a difficult guy to knock unconscious because I'm to the point my head pretty instinctively knows how to tuck into my shoulder when a punch is coming. Add on that I may still perfectly well lose the fight, especially against 3 dudes who like to go around beating people up (meaning they have some degree of experience fighting) - but one or more of them is either going to get to taste my blade, or experience broken bones or joints.

This really makes me mad, pukes like this...I hate 'em.

Come to Colorado and pick on someone who can fight back you pieces of garbage. Punching an old guy in the mouth and beating up his daughter, yeah, real tough guys. I got a couple of friends I'd like to introduce you too, nah, just one actually. 3 versus 2, i'll give you the one man advantage.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I am of the opinion that if you continue to live life while enjoying some of the things life has to offer, there is always some risk involved. Leaving a Rascal Flatts concert would not normally be considered a high-risk thing to do. And if you are knocked out cold before having any chance to respond, what can you do?

Assuming I had the ability to fight back, I would have to give it my all, win or lose. I don't know that there is a correct response for all possibilities.
Yeah, I completely get that. That's why it's so scary. I was just hoping someone might have a thought of some tactic that might improve the situation if you weren't knocked out with the first punch.

Also, the guy's daughter and son-in-law were there, jumped in fray and got hurt also. If you are a familiy "rescuer" like that, what is a good way to go in? I would imagine getting in a position to blindside one of them right off, to even the odds, and then go from there. I don't mean to second guess these folks, I wasn't there and I'm sure it was shocking, but it seems they tried to break up the fight like you would do with drunk relatives at a wedding. They didn't see it for the brutal attack it was and just go in full force.

That's why I keep a gun accessible in the car and my wife has firearms training. If I were in that situation, I would want her to go for it and take any clear shots she could. I also keep an ironwood "tire knocker" next to the driver's seat.
 

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There wouldn't be much you could do. Most venues won't let you carry a weapon, so you're unarmed from the time you leave your car until you get back. Shooting in a crowded parking lot would probably not be a great idea, either. I gave both of my daughters a canister of LEO strength pepper spray to carry in their purse. That would probably have been the best option.
 
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There wouldn't be much you could do. Most venues won't let you carry a weapon, so you're unarmed from the time you leave your car until you get back. Shooting in a crowded parking lot would probably not be a great idea, either. I gave both of my daughters a canister of LEO strength pepper spray to carry in their purse. That would probably have been the best option.
A good walking cane suitable as a force multiplier wouldn't hurt either.

Once you get knocked out, you're knocked out. Constantly working on SA skills and running through potential scenarios in you head are about the only thing you can do to keep yourself out of the fight to start with. But, once an attack does happen you better have something that you can draw from to help you survive.


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A good walking cane suitable as a force multiplier wouldn't hurt either.

Once you get knocked out, you're knocked out. Constantly working on SA skills and running through potential scenarios in you head are about the only thing you can do to keep yourself out of the fight to start with. But, once an attack does happen you better have something that you can draw from to help you survive.


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Good point. Use your SA to make sure people don't get close enough to you to knock you out.
 

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This will sound sort of stupid but a high quality mouthpiece would do wonders to keep you from getting knocked out cold straight out of the gate. It's not going to help if you get smacked to the back of the head of course but it does give some protection. Tight deerskin driving gloves and give a good degree of hand protection as well.

That, and learn a few skills
 

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This was probably one of those knockout games. I'm just guessing. They problem today is that most kids has no respect for their elders anymore. Maybe one day this will come back to haunt them if they ever look for a job..
 

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I also would have a firearm in the vehicle and I wouldn't care if my wife had to shoot through me to hit these scumbags. I hate em as bad as dingbat does. I would help finance dingbat and his friend's trip down there and pay for a ticket to watch the blood flow. Of course these cowards would never show up against someone who could fight back. I hope they get prison Justice.
 

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I would have disengaged as soon as they started getting belligerent (probably before, I'm not big on making small talk with people I don't know). The article says that the attackers started screaming at people "at the top of their lungs," and then Wallace asked them why they were doing that. He was beaten immediately afterward.
 

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I just finished reading the Google reviews of their company's landscaping business. Even before this story broke, their business only had 1 star. And the crazy part was the fact that they were driving the company truck when this attack happened.
The thing I can't believe is how light the charges are against them, misdemeanor simple assault. And they bonded out before Mike was released from the hospital. And from what I read, this all started out by Wallace asking them,"How did you like the show?".
I'm finding that I cannot trust anyone under 30.

Here's that Google link: https://www.google.com/search?q=Lucas+Lawn+&+Landscaping&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#
 

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I just looked at the street view of that business. It looks like a decently large company that the father is going to lose in the civil suit. :35:
 

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I've taken the first punch before but never knocked out. Even if I were to have gotten cold cocked or downed by all 3, I'd take the first one with me. I'm not a big guy but am muscular. I try to fight one at a time. If I'm on the ground, the other guy will be in a choke hold where I can use my fist to pummel his face and then hit him hard enough in the throat to move on to the next guy. I will grab on to bigger taller guys and start punching. Most big guys don't expect it. I have no problem biting them in the nose or taking a chunk of their ear. All is fair when it's 3 against one so if possible I'll bite, gouge, slam them with any nearby object. If the third guy is really big, we try to negotiate since I'm pretty tired after number 2.
 

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The other side of the coin has a different account of events including a pre-concert interaction and the question of how much liquid courage was present at the TKO.

This sounds like things won't be resolved until all three sides of the story are told.

Wallace's best self defense sounds like it would have been to watch concerts on TV.
 

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Most people are R/handed . I long ago quit standing face on to talk to people I don't know to exposed . I stand slightly turned where my body offers some protection from a right round house punch aimed at jaw . Seems to me he show no SA and paid for it.
 

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The other side of the coin has a different account of events including a pre-concert interaction and the question of how much liquid courage was present at the TKO.

This sounds like things won't be resolved until all three sides of the story are told.
Agreed, but I was raised to not hit women so my sympathy level is at 0 for these clowns, I don't care what was said or done, kicking a women defending her father who's already down is no bueno.
 
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