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Discussion Starter #1
I just acquired an El Cheapo 410 single shot. I have shot a variety of loads through it and am consistently high and a little right. This is with aimed fire nestling the front bead into a groove in the receiver.

I have shotguns that don't "fit" me and for bird or squirrel hunting they are fine. Even trap. I know where to hold snap shooting and they all will at hit where I aim if I have time to actually aim it. Like turkey hunting.
Not so with this 410.

After pouring over the netz all the chatter is fitting the gun to the shooter, but nothing I have read has addressed slow aimed fire not hitting where it's pointed.

On a whim I just tied a small shooting bag to the front sling swivel, thinking that maybe the gun is so light that the barrel is raising before the payload leaves the muzzzle. Nope. Still high and right.

I have also read some comments on bending the barrel... Anything from sending it to someone to rapping the barrel on a bag of shot. But no mention on which direction to move the barrel.
You might think if it shoots high to bend the barrel down... but wouldn't that lower the front bead? That seems like it would cause me to shoot even higher with aimed fire.

Any input?
Perhaps some trap shooters here know the ins and outs of barrel bending and which direction to move POI to where, or have another suggestion I can do myself. No sense sending a $90 shotgun to anyone except the manufacturer, and being the gun is made in Turkey...

And before someone asks, pics ;)

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If you were just using a front bead for a sight, Your eye is the rear sight. and sanding or bending the stock would move your eye to adjust the sight. BUT! you are using a grove in the receiver as a rear sight. And want to use the sights like a rifle sight. You could easily put ghost ring sights that are adjustable on it.With a plastic stock that may be the easiest way to go. Drill and tap a couple holes front and back and mount sights on it.
 

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A taller front bead should lower the poi. Don't ask me how much taller. You might be able to experiment a little rigging something for a taller front sight. Two shots are pretty close. Was the one to the right caused by you? A center bead installed offset slightly to the left should move poi left. How much????
 

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Discussion Starter #4
If you were just using a front bead for a sight, Your eye is the rear sight. and sanding or bending the stock would move your eye to adjust the sight. BUT! you are using a grove in the receiver as a rear sight. And want to use the sights like a rifle sight. You could easily put ghost ring sights that are adjustable on it.With a plastic stock that may be the easiest way to go. Drill and tap a couple holes front and back and mount sights on it.
I'd really like to keep it a simple shotgun, but adding front and rear sights would certainly allow me correction.
Maybe I'll see what's available for shotguns. I keep thinking to my Henry rifles with their monster front sights because I added a peep rear.

A taller front bead should lower the poi. Don't ask me how much taller. You might be able to experiment a little rigging something for a taller front sight. Two shots are pretty close. Was the one to the right caused by you? A center bead installed offset slightly to the left should move poi left. How much????
Are shotguns standardized in their bead threads? I didn't look into it because I assumed it would be hard to determine the threads or they might be metric.
And how do you put the bead on offset? Or do you file the one side?

This sounds like a good option if I can determine the threads.

It was a four pellet buck load. It shoots consistently high and a little right. Low velocity, too.
With shot the windage isn't quite as noticeable, but it's there. The center of the pattern is the same height. Probably fine for a bird gun, but I want to load ball in it, too. Slugs are nowhere to be found right now, so I'll roll my own or load it like a ML.

I'll give ATI a call later today and maybe their customer service can tell me what threads that front bead is.

And the barrel is quite thick. Maybe rapping it on a bag of shot would not have worked anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hmm... it seems SOP is to buy a new sight and the drill and tap that go along with it...
And I am having a hard time locating front beads that are listed by height anyway.

I've taken off the front bead and it's a tiny thing. I was hoping I could have raised it, but there aren't enough threads there. In spite of this shotgun having a rather thick barrel wall. Very much like a rifle.

Maybe ATI will help, or maybe I can cross-reference the bead to a brass nut and back to a brass machine screw, then fashion my own sight.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Something like this might be the easy fix.

Hey, thanks.
That should tell me something. And it's a lot easier than fitting a new bead and buying the bit and tap.

The numbers ATI gave me had Brownells baffled. And I could not find anything on the net that corresponded to them. I knew they didn't make sense when customer service gave them to me.

Amazon had a 410 size and it should be here Thurs :)
 

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Be sure to let us know how it works out.
 
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Discussion Starter #12
Try scuffing up the front sight and add a tall bead of solder. Small file to remove solder as necessary to lower POI to POA.
Good suggestion. My mind wasn't thinking that brass was easy to solder.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Be sure to let us know how it works out.

Hopefully with some shots on target! :D

I've got all the stuff coming in from Midway to roll my own, too. Including ball.
Not a slug to be found online and I can't believe I'm all out of 410 slugs.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Any way to reload slugs with something like these?
Hornady FTX Bullets Flex Tip
Hornady XTP Bullets Jacketed Hollow Point

IDK, just thinking out loud.

You should be able to load them like a muzzleloader and ram them home on top of the charge with an overpowder card in-between. I'd feel better about pushing down the hollow points rather than the poly tipped.
But without a rifled barrel a patched ball is said to be more accurate at distance over a conical. Even Civil War conical bullets (mini balls) were shot through rifling.

But at typical deer distances in my area... they might be an option at close range.
The problem with the 410 has always been penetration, so testing would need done.
 

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With the poly tip, you'd just need a ramrod that was relieved in the center. Much like the seating stems used with the standard metallic cartridge.
The poly tip should induce more reliable expansion??
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Yes, some kind or relief at the tip of the ram rod.
Or just a wood dowel with the HP's.


Like you said, just kicking things around.

I don't remember all the letters... SST was one...
But I used to load red poly tipped Hornadys that were known for their accuracy and came with a warning not to be used for hunting. They worked fine on chucks.
Then they came out with a hunting poly tip with just a slight difference in measurements and also the lead composite.
Then they came out with a third bullet that was supposed to bridge the gap between the two. This was all 6.5 Creedmoor when I was playing with that.

The leverevolution bullets are known to handle high velocity and be hunting rounds.

So IMO you'd really need to shoot those 410 bullets to see how they react at the slower fps you're probably going to be loading in a 410 single shot with BP.
Sure would be fun finding out how they penetrate a medium compared to lead ball.

I really wish bullet manufacturers would give you sample packages like airgun pellets. I've got too many 32 cal bullets coming in also, just trying to find a diameter and weight that works in my lever gun.
 

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That poly tip is one of the leverevolution bullets.
 
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Discussion Starter #19
That poly tip is one of the leverevolution bullets.

It sure looks like it.
That's why I wonder if it would penetrate AND expand at low pressure loadings.
 

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It sure looks like it.
That's why I wonder if it would penetrate AND expand at low pressure loadings.
Hornady's ballistic calculator shows a max range of 500yds @ 780fps. That's from a 41mag with a muzzle speed of 1620 fps. Should perform OK within that range, if it will stabilize from the smooth bore. Might be fun to play with.
Hornady's application is for Med Game(50-300 lbs).
Specs HERE
 
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