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Discussion Starter #1
I bought some ammo... Supposed to be brand new but after bringing it to the range, a friend (who has years of experience reloading) has said he thinks it's reloads/remanufactured. Would like to hear some of your opinions on the pics below. On the brass, you can see 2 shades of color. Makes me think it is the resizing die? Also, inconsistent primer seals. Some are red and some are not.

I checked it against other Win ammo, and it does not have these characteristics. Also checked it against know factory rifle ammo and found the same 2-tone brass color.

Has anyone run into factory ammo like this? This is Winchester Nato 9mm 124gr. Do you think these are reloads or factory? Or no way to tell?

336462
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Maybe someone smarter than me will chime in, but the ring on the case, and the ring impression on the bullet indicates these are reloads.
 

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Military headstamps and crimped primers. The only way to reload those cases is to remove the primer crimps, which requires cutting or swaging (I use both), which would be readily apparent. The red sealant in the primer pockets is usually uneven in appearance, but usually seen only on military contract ammo. I think you are looking at new military ball ammo.
 

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I'm going with remanufactured ammo. The inconsistency of the primer seals within the same box and the primer crimps appear less than full. WCC 9mm, or at least all the cases I've reloaded require extra effort to decrimp the primer pockets.

That doesn't mean remanufactured ammo is bad.
 

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I'm going to say remanufactured. Those primer crimps have been removed.and reprimed. I can't tell you if it's good ammo or not, But take a sample of ten or so and plunk test them. They should drop right into your chamber, and then fall right out when the chamber is tipped over. If any fail test them all.
If they are reloaded well, they will shoot like new. The only thing I see that catches my eye is the primers don't seem to all be at the same height. But that may just be the lighting in the pic. Good Luck. DR
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Them's factory virgin loads--looks like perfectly normal crimped military pockets to me. "Discoloration" is NOT sizing die but annealing coloration. Show picture of box ammo came in.
Why don't you try shooting them?
I have shot them. My buddy who has been reloading forever, did not want to shoot them. Made me suspicious. Only thing that does not seem right is the inconsistent primer sealer within the same box. Some red, some not.

Velocity is within spec for 9mm NATO, ~1180ish...
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Good point! Something seems "off"... Don't know what the real story is. I think they are probably new ammo, or that's what I'd like to believe. Can't find any extractor marks or ejector marks. I've seen other cases with the 2-tone color. Don't see any scratches consistent with reloading. Feeling that they are more legit than not... Will do a fit test later today at the range.

Thanks all for giving me your thoughts. Helps to have some experienced eyes in this situation. Much appreciated!
 

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Contract ammo QA rejects?

I might venture a guess that this brass is recycled from a lot which had the bullets pulled. The marks on the brass appear to have been left by a resizing die. I do not believe this is due to discoloration from annealing, I know of no one who anneals straight walled pistol brass.

That's my guess...
 
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Contract ammo QA rejects?

I might venture a guess that this brass is recycled from a lot which had the bullets pulled. The marks on the brass appear to have been left by a resizing die. I do not believe this is due to discoloration from annealing, I know of no one who anneals straight walled pistol brass.

That's my guess...
That plus there's no need to anneal brass until its been resized several times, and then only on cases that are roll crimped as far as handgun ammo is concerned.
 

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I do anneal my 500 S&W brass every third loading because I apply a heavy roll crimp with that cartridge. Other than the 500 S&W, I've never annealed any handgun cartridge.
 
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That plus there's no need to anneal brass until its been resized several times, and then only on cases that are roll crimped as far as handgun ammo is concerned.
Doesn't it get annealed after being made into a case? Seems like the original forming of the case, from a chunk of brass, would cause more hardness than the work hardening caused by being resized several times. Thus a need to anneal a brand new case before it gets run through the loading process?

I know how to reload but know nothing about the process of taking a piece of brass and forming it into a case. Is it like knife making where it needs to be annealed after forging?
 

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I do anneal my 500 S&W brass every third loading because I apply a heavy roll crimp with that cartridge. Other than the 500 S&W, I've never annealed any handgun cartridge.
But have you ever made the brass casing from scratch and then found that the process of making it has hardened the brass to the point where it cannot go through the loading dies?

Me neither but if we eventually have to anneal them after the work hardening caused by sizing dies, wouldn't there be more hardening during the actual manufacturing of the brass case?
 

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Doesn't it get annealed after being made into a case? Seems like the original forming of the case, from a chunk of brass, would cause more hardness than the work hardening caused by being resized several times. Thus a need to anneal a brand new case before it gets run through the loading process?

I know how to reload but know nothing about the process of taking a piece of brass and forming it into a case. Is it like knife making where it needs to be annealed after forging?
That I don't know, probably so.
Actually, I just watched a video by Starline Brass. They anneal the cases after the first extrusion, extrude it a second time then complete the manufacture of the case. Those cases you show definitely look like they've been resized.
 
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But have you ever made the brass casing from scratch and then found that the process of making it has hardened the brass to the point where it cannot go through the loading dies?

Me neither but if we eventually have to anneal them after the work hardening caused by sizing dies, wouldn't there be more hardening during the actual manufacturing of the brass case?
I haven't done it but I know that annealing is part of the process of forming new cartridge cases from another in cases where there is significant working of the brass requires that the brass be softened with the annealing process. Forming a bottleneck case from a straight wall often requires annealing.
 
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