[P95Carry]

Today was day #1 of my teaching an NRA personal protection course - tomorrow is day #2. I am already pooped :biggrin:

We have (fortunately) a nice small group - just 9 and overall I think six of us for range tutoring - makes for a good student/teacher ratio. Class this morning went well and afternoon was all (if hot) on the range.

My two students were apples and oranges (fortunately) - the guy on my right shoots IDPA even tho he only did our basic pistol course last year - he did use a P95 but today brought a new XD-9. He needs NO help at all - he is good - I mean good!!! Phew! Even with new gun.

However the dear lady to my left was not so good. She is I guess my age (damn, that's old!!) but had a 2" J frame snub - with which she really was not too familiar.

Oh dear - unloads and reloads were hands everywhere - fumble, fiddle, fumble. While on this course we try and leave students to ''sort it out for themselves'' I had to physically keep showing her what might be better.

My main assessment was, while ladies do find revo's quite good - not at all sure this was the platform for her. She was not very accurate, she was not very comfortable even, just with 38 spl's.

We finished today's session tho with her at least having improved but - I worry about her handling skills. I hope tomorrow she has a vest or something, whereby she can access her speedloaders easier - today was reaching across to left pocket with right hand - and gun was a total nuisance!!! More fumble, fumble!

The last stages we did involved a loud verbal challenge - ''x'' many asked-for shots COM, followed by threat scan - good system I think. But she did not remember all aspects all the time.

Diagnosis She possibly has the wrong gun tho more likely - she had not, pre the course even gotten familiar. Oh well - always like a challenge! :smile: We'll see tomorrow how she does after I gave her some empty gun ''homework''.

I will say tho - nothing but nothing, is more satisfying than helping along a struggling shooter and having them see improvement over quite a short time - it is tho darned tiring! I will hope tomorrow we get further with it - so that she goes away better prepared and then able to practice on her own.

I find it encouraging and commendable that someone this age should be starting out - good for them I say, but just wish I could get more one-on-one time to get her thru this early stage. I am so glad however to be able to give something back - however humble.

 

[CombatEffective]

Hopefully, she will improve, but some people just don't get it.

In my time as an instructor, I have seen several people that actually shot fairly well and even better but have a terrible time trying to lock the slide back or do assembly area loads and such per procedure.

 

[Bud White]

That is a big thing got to know your Piece and relaods etc etc we had a couple in out mandated CCW class the instructers didnt even come down to me they knew me from being in there so much ..

We had 16 of us and shot in relays

 

[Euclidean]

Chris I think you have a whole lot of things going on there.

I've always maintained that in instruction, your own ability needs to be light years above, ability wise, whatever it is you are trying to facilitate. This is a problem that plagues public education. For instance out of a room of 50 secondary math teachers last year, only 5 or 6 of us were, shall we say, "classically trained" (I.E. we actually had mathematics degrees from a university). That's just terrible.

The first reason why is you've got to project that level of competence and confidence without forcing it. Algebra is trivial to me like this course is to you. That is one of the best things you can offer someone who's trying to learn is your own confidence in what you are doing.

The other reason why is because every so often you actually find that learner who has that ability even if he doesn't necessarily have that experience. Believe it or not, seeing someone else who knows what they're doing do the same thing as you really helps. That other guy is getting more out of this than you know!

Now how you bring together the student who cannot multiply with the student who does every problem perfectly is an art, the width and depth of which you can spend a lifetime attempting to master.

That's a pretty tough road to hoe if you're a true novice shooter and you just have a J frame with a short barrel. I try to practice and train up with mine as much as I can and I don't have near the confidence I do with my full size pistols. To be honest I don't really "like" these types of guns at all. I much prefer a full sized revolver, the longer the sight radius the better. If I had different needs I doubt I'd even own such guns.

I remember when I was trying to help my aunt out one thing I told her to do was think of all the guns she'd ever handled or shot or even seen and come up with a list of criteria. She surprised herself with her own choices. It's true that she did wind up with a fairly small gun, but it was a good fit. She's someone who could easily have been bluffed into "Here buy this little gun it's perfect..."

To be honest I've never fathomed where the whole "Women like small revolvers" thing took off. I sure don't know any that do. I even think it's condescending and sexist. "Don't give her that complicated old semiautomatic she'll just hurt herself..." Or "A .45? She'll break her wrist!" I have more personal hangups about semiautos than any lady shooter I've ever encountered and I'll admit it too.

To be fair though I do see a tendency for people to gravitate towards guns that reflect the size of their hands. I have ham hands myself and I find L and N frames extremely pleasing ergonomically. And I have had an experience at least twice where someone saw one or more of my guns and their eyes bugged out in disbelief I actually shoot that thing. "Good Lord that's a big gun!"

And it's normally my P 89 or my 686 which I consider to be "normal" sized that gets those reactions... to me a big gun is one of those hand cannons you're so fond of. I guess size is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[HotGuns]

I once qualified a gal that had a very hard time with a Taurus Model 85...a 2 inch snub .38 special. It was all she could do to hit an 8x10 sheet of paper at 7 yards. She mentioned that she could shoot her Husbands gun much better. Since he was there also, I had him bring it to her. It was a Colt Delta Elite 10MM. I questioned her about it and she said she was OK with it.

After demonstrating that she could safely load and unload several times, I had her shoot it. She shot the center right of the paper and did it with several mags worth. She had no problem whatsoever with the 10MM and commented that she would rather carry it than the .38.

Ya never can tell with some people. Ive found that often times just changing to a different gun can help someone that seems plagued with problems. It may be a mental thing with the confidence for some folks I think but if it works thats all that matters.

 

[QKShooter]

P95Carry ~ Interesting Thread

The decision to give a person that has trouble with a revolver a semi~auto would depend on if that person were scatterbrained or just had trouble coordinating the act of loading a revolver in a hurry.
Even "lining up" speedloaders give some people frustrating problems.
For sure slamming home one magazine is easier than loading 5 or 6 individual cartridges or getting a speedloader lined up.
Is this person fumbling due to general nervousness in combination with manual dexterity problems or does she have trouble remembering what to do?
If her problem is more than just nervous...then I would not suggest a semi-auto due to that fateful hidden cartridge in the chamber that one must forever be mindful of.
Some people just cannot "think straight" & that sort of person would probably be better off with a revolver where "loaded" is always visible.
I mean you would think that EVERYBODY should be able handle a hammer because it has absolutely no moving parts.
But, some folks cannot pound in a nail even if their very lives depended on it.

 

[rocky]

I think a somewhat larger gun, (4" barrel) might help improve training for beginners. Once the accuracy and familiarity of the gun type is set an shorter barrel will not seem so difficult. The rest is muscle memory. We had beginners trained in a 3 week course and qualifying.

 

[P95Carry]

Is this person fumbling due to general nervousness in combination with manual dexterity problems or does she have trouble remembering what to do?

Well QK - day #2 and, well - she did improve but still problems. Yep - fumbling too much, indecision over which hand does what - despite showing her preferable methods... basically severe lack of experience and practice. She does realize that now.

This a lady who is getting on a bit, has not got adequate strength in trigger finger to use the pad and so uses first joint - this means she has a grip that offsets the gun muzzle slightly right so as to reach - and then on firing she tends to pull right as well because of awkward trigger finger action.

We did tho get round some of this today but it is apparent she needs to excercize her hand to improve strength - plus the D/A pull on the Lady Smith is really just to heavy right now, and the small rosewood grips while pretty are frankly - no good for her!.

Tho she didn't shoot with it live - I asked her to hold and aim my SIG - a big heavy brute by comparison. She did tho find that the trigger was easy and even despite size she felt in control.

Sadly tho she had a common prob' that some ladies find with semi's - too much strength needed to rack slide. Technique can help this but - I have often noted this as a problem, plus extra ''controls'' seem to phase some folks and so revo a more obvious choice.

She confessed also to not having shot the gun much at all since she took Basic Pistol earlier in the year - when she comes to range it is only to shoot 22 - which is better than no shooting at all but it ain't enough to help with using this revo.

Anyways - end of session she had improved a lot - and now needs to work at it herself a lot. I reckon she might get on better with a 3" SP-101 or similar but she wants to stick to this gun - we'll see whether she can make more progress and in meantime I hope she doesn't have to use it - she is way too slow, but much safer.

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Oh and Euc forgot to say thx for your good post too.

 

[CombatEffective]

One of those Berettas with the flip up barrels might work well for her.