Bugs, do yourself a favor and go ahead and trade it in. I would much rather my wife carried a 1911....
New Sigma 9ve
Last week I picked up a new Sigma 9ve for $279.00. The reason I got it was 9's are cheap to shoot and every post that I read said the same thing, great buy for the money except it takes about 500 rounds for the trigger to lighten up. Also I thought the wife would finally give up her old M66 and would like the Sigma. .
The trigger is so hard at this point, it's real hard to keep a good sight picture. I ran 50 rounds of 115 FMJ through it with very poor results. So I gave it to the wife to shoot the next 50 to see if she would like to try some thing new. She can really shoot and usally shoots her 357 M66 2 1/2 happily ignoring my pistols.
She picked it up, sighted and nothing happened. She put it down turned and said I can't pull the trigger. I said give it another try. Well she gave it her best and only hit the target 1 time out of ten and said "real nice buy you can keep this" Then she picked up my new S&W 1911 and put 8 in the black.
Now she says, I really like this gun it's as accurate and as easy to shoot as your Sig 220. I got a shiver up my back as I realized that the Sigma might cost me a lot more than $279. If that trigger on the Sigma stays the same after 500 rounds I'm going to trade it in for another .45.
My 25 year old M59 shoots rings around this pistol, if this is progress were in trouble.
The trigger is so hard at this point, it's real hard to keep a good sight picture. I ran 50 rounds of 115 FMJ through it with very poor results. So I gave it to the wife to shoot the next 50 to see if she would like to try some thing new. She can really shoot and usally shoots her 357 M66 2 1/2 happily ignoring my pistols.
She picked it up, sighted and nothing happened. She put it down turned and said I can't pull the trigger. I said give it another try. Well she gave it her best and only hit the target 1 time out of ten and said "real nice buy you can keep this" Then she picked up my new S&W 1911 and put 8 in the black.
Now she says, I really like this gun it's as accurate and as easy to shoot as your Sig 220. I got a shiver up my back as I realized that the Sigma might cost me a lot more than $279. If that trigger on the Sigma stays the same after 500 rounds I'm going to trade it in for another .45.
My 25 year old M59 shoots rings around this pistol, if this is progress were in trouble.
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
S&W Sigma series = Bad Karma
Smith and Wesson had a board of directors meeting and someone said "You know what our product line is too good. Our revolvers are top notch, we're building a pretty good 1911, our automatics are doing fine... we need to build a real piece of sh#t just to even things out. We need to pick a design someone else does much much better and just really screw it up. I mean it just needs to be awful. It needs to fall apart after a few hundred rounds, it needs to take three hands to field strip... People I'm having a vision here and that vision is of a gun that completely and tottally sucks. Smith and Wesson is in serious danger of becoming a more powerful player in the handgun market. We need to take ourselves down a peg."
I'd take almost anything over a Sigma series pistol. They're awful.
Smith and Wesson had a board of directors meeting and someone said "You know what our product line is too good. Our revolvers are top notch, we're building a pretty good 1911, our automatics are doing fine... we need to build a real piece of sh#t just to even things out. We need to pick a design someone else does much much better and just really screw it up. I mean it just needs to be awful. It needs to fall apart after a few hundred rounds, it needs to take three hands to field strip... People I'm having a vision here and that vision is of a gun that completely and tottally sucks. Smith and Wesson is in serious danger of becoming a more powerful player in the handgun market. We need to take ourselves down a peg."
I'd take almost anything over a Sigma series pistol. They're awful.
I had read in a few different places that it had a heavy trigger pull and that it would lighten up after 500 rounds. When I first pulled the trigger I said whoa that's bad. This was after I cleaned it new out of the box and oiled the trigger. I'm guessing the trigger to be at least ten pounds. Next week I'm going to run 400 rounds through it and if it won't come down alot it's gone.
Ditch the wanna be glock my uncle bought him self and daughter one his in 40 hers in 9mm both are hunks of crap both suck trigger on both are a nightmare and the 9 is a jam o matic i know they copied the desgin from glock but they still aint figured it out ....
Now im not a big glock fan either but the 17 or 19 is hard to beat
Now im not a big glock fan either but the 17 or 19 is hard to beat
The thing I've figured out about why the Sigma series is popular is its price tag.
I propose a Taurus PT-111 may be had for a comparable price and is a much better pistol.
I propose a Taurus PT-111 may be had for a comparable price and is a much better pistol.
Ditch the Sigma. Unless you are willing to drop some serious discretionary funds into fixing the hefty pull of the trigger, you will be hard pressed to enjoy it. Friend bought one with the decocker function and it is still a bear to fire. (Against my recommendations mind you) This kinda goes back to that addage, you get what you pay for. I would put this just a hair above a hi-point or other like pistols...
~A
~A
Euclidean said:S&W Sigma series = Bad Karma
Smith and Wesson had a board of directors meeting and someone said "You know what our product line is too good. Our revolvers are top notch, we're building a pretty good 1911, our automatics are doing fine... we need to build a real piece of sh#t just to even things out. We need to pick a design someone else does much much better and just really screw it up. I mean it just needs to be awful. It needs to fall apart after a few hundred rounds, it needs to take three hands to field strip... People I'm having a vision here and that vision is of a gun that completely and tottally sucks. Smith and Wesson is in serious danger of becoming a more powerful player in the handgun market. We need to take ourselves down a peg."
I'd take almost anything over a Sigma series pistol. They're awful.
Everything I read from you talks about your dislike (or whatever) about semi autos. So what qualifies that rant?
I had a Sigma- I sold it to get my Kimber. But the Sigma shot (and still shoots, I sold it to my father in law) very well. It feels good in the hand and is very accurate. This thread will quickly turn into a flame war/pissing match but I think they got a bad rap. I think the "VE" signifies a second wave of production (I may be wrong) after the initial screwups. There is another poster here, rfurtkamp (I think that is what it is) whose posts are always very informative and I believe he knows that he is talking about. His wife carries one and loves it.
Right now I'm waiting for a Fed Ex tag from S&W to send it back to the factory. That's the reason I only buy S&W great service.
Okay fair question.hawkeye680 said:Everything I read from you talks about your dislike (or whatever) about semi autos. So what qualifies that rant?
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=125697&highlight=sigma
Summary: a few people like them but the consensus is there are better pistols to be had.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=129828&highlight=sigma
Summary: Worst .380 ever made.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=69603&highlight=sigma
Summary: Most votes for the worst gun from a real gun company.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=113495&highlight=sigma
Summary: The CZ-40P is apparently available at a comparable price and is a much better gun, and even the Sigma supporters seem to acknowledge it.
I could dig up some more stuff but I think that proves my point sufficiently. If you don't think I'm qualified to give an opinion then you don't have to take it from me.
To be perfectly fair, I did learn the new Sigmas are apparently much much better. That's a good thing and it has given me a little more confidence in the series, but not much.
OK, and not to beat a dead Sigma, but does the only experience you have with them come from reading web forums? Where only a very small percentage of owners bother to read let alone post? Don't take me the wrong way, and I really am not playing devil's advocate or be a jerk or anything, but I get tired of reading reviews or comments from someone who does not have firsthand experience.
I've never stuck my hand in a running engine either but my three fingered uncle has. It would therefore be logical to try sticking my hand in an engine as I have no first hand experience and don't conclusively know if it's harmful or not. :wink:
Hawkeye do you see that equation in my avatar? That's the quadratic formula. I didn't invent it firsthand. I didn't sit there and derive it from scratch.
Someone else figured it out and handed that information over to me. Just because I didn't do it personally, first hand, doesn't mean the information is worthless. The ability to use information that others have discovered is what keeps us moving forward as a species.
Now I will repeat myself. Apparently the newer Sigmas are fine according to this very same research. You want me to ignore the information that's negative and just accept that which is positive or ignore it all? After all it's not first hand either way.
Hawkeye do you see that equation in my avatar? That's the quadratic formula. I didn't invent it firsthand. I didn't sit there and derive it from scratch.
Someone else figured it out and handed that information over to me. Just because I didn't do it personally, first hand, doesn't mean the information is worthless. The ability to use information that others have discovered is what keeps us moving forward as a species.
Now I will repeat myself. Apparently the newer Sigmas are fine according to this very same research. You want me to ignore the information that's negative and just accept that which is positive or ignore it all? After all it's not first hand either way.
<SIGH> You missed the point.
I am trying to tell you I don't understand how you say
"I'd take almost anything over a Sigma series pistol. They're awful."
when the only experience you have has come from INTERNET FORUMS. How many Sigmas are out there performing flawlessly for every web post you can find where somebody is griping about one?
No disrespect dude, I'm a young guy here learning just like you are. Maybe the 40 hr work week plus the 9 hrs of my last semester are getting to me....ZZZZZZZZZ
I am trying to tell you I don't understand how you say
"I'd take almost anything over a Sigma series pistol. They're awful."
when the only experience you have has come from INTERNET FORUMS. How many Sigmas are out there performing flawlessly for every web post you can find where somebody is griping about one?
No disrespect dude, I'm a young guy here learning just like you are. Maybe the 40 hr work week plus the 9 hrs of my last semester are getting to me....ZZZZZZZZZ
Hawk, go take a look at one at a store sometime, especially a used one. You don't have to be a gunsmith to see what you read has a lot of meaning.
True enough that the people who are happy with something are seldom the people who are vocal. Content people tend to be a silent majority. That point I concede.
Perhaps part of it is my awkward prose and the fact I was trying apparently in vain to be a bit humorous about it in the original post. Sarcasm tends to bring out hyperboles, and most things I write on the internet come from my surface thoughts while I sit working on something else or suffering from insomnia.
How about this then: I will amend my statement to:
"Based on what I've read about some of the pistols in this series and the few I've seen in stores I have no interest in owning one and would discourage anyone else from owning one if they had another choice. I feel that the cost of these pistols is the only reason they're popular but I also feel the discriminating consumer can purchase a better quality pistol in a similar format for comparable money. I personally, based on the information I have found and the specimens I have seen, will have nothing to do with this series of pistols and would encourage you to adopt the same policy."
Or I could just say
"They suck. They're terrible. Don't buy one."
Most people prefer the latter even if it isn't as well qualified or stated.
Or did I just miss the point again?
Oh well I never can make anybody happy. :tongue:
True enough that the people who are happy with something are seldom the people who are vocal. Content people tend to be a silent majority. That point I concede.
Perhaps part of it is my awkward prose and the fact I was trying apparently in vain to be a bit humorous about it in the original post. Sarcasm tends to bring out hyperboles, and most things I write on the internet come from my surface thoughts while I sit working on something else or suffering from insomnia.
How about this then: I will amend my statement to:
"Based on what I've read about some of the pistols in this series and the few I've seen in stores I have no interest in owning one and would discourage anyone else from owning one if they had another choice. I feel that the cost of these pistols is the only reason they're popular but I also feel the discriminating consumer can purchase a better quality pistol in a similar format for comparable money. I personally, based on the information I have found and the specimens I have seen, will have nothing to do with this series of pistols and would encourage you to adopt the same policy."
Or I could just say
"They suck. They're terrible. Don't buy one."
Most people prefer the latter even if it isn't as well qualified or stated.
Or did I just miss the point again?
Oh well I never can make anybody happy. :tongue:
LOL, like I said, I had one, I just sold one because I wanted my Kimber 1911 very badly.
Roll on,
Mike
Now see, how easy was that???Euclidean said:"Based on what I've read about some of the pistols in this series and the few I've seen in stores I have no interest in owning one and would discourage anyone else from owning one if they had another choice. I feel that the cost of these pistols is the only reason they're popular but I also feel the discriminating consumer can purchase a better quality pistol in a similar format for comparable money. I personally, based on the information I have found and the specimens I have seen, will have nothing to do with this series of pistols and would encourage you to adopt the same policy."
Roll on,
Mike
It wasn't hard, but it was pointless from my perspective.
There's no need to clarify an opinion so much in a casual discussion environment like an internet forum. People don't care.
They want the bottom line: how do you feel about such and such? They want your gut instinct stated in a few simple words, not a long list of qualifications and justifications.
When you read so many awful things and then go hold one up to the light and see the hairline cracks you don't need to sit there and recount the story. You just say "It stinks like a fish." and go on with life.
People don't just say things for no reason. Why on earth would I post something like "The Sigma series is awful" arbitrarily? I don't get paid every time somebody doesn't buy one. Heck I own 2 Smiths and I'm looking at getting a third one.
There's no need to clarify an opinion so much in a casual discussion environment like an internet forum. People don't care.
They want the bottom line: how do you feel about such and such? They want your gut instinct stated in a few simple words, not a long list of qualifications and justifications.
When you read so many awful things and then go hold one up to the light and see the hairline cracks you don't need to sit there and recount the story. You just say "It stinks like a fish." and go on with life.
People don't just say things for no reason. Why on earth would I post something like "The Sigma series is awful" arbitrarily? I don't get paid every time somebody doesn't buy one. Heck I own 2 Smiths and I'm looking at getting a third one.
Well is was my thread that started this and I should say, my experince with the Sigma 9ve that I just bought, didn't turn me off against them, it was just as I expected. I knew the trigger would be real stiff but I didn't expect it to be that stiff, supposedly it's about 15 pounds right out of the box. It's suppose to get better after 500 rounds.
The reason I bought it like I posted earlier, was mostly just for the range 9mm ammo is cheap and I wanted a new 9mm pistol for the wife to use also when she went to the range with me. That part just didn't work out. The trigger is so bad she couldn't fire it the first couple of times. After coaxing her back to try it, she said she just couldn't handle it and refused to have any thing to do with it.
Now I take it home and start cleaning it and when I go to put the slide back on it, it jammed a 1/2 inch from the frame. No way could we get it to budge. More than likely it was my fault. I'm not the most focused person you ever met with mechanical items. My wife with never let me put together the kids toys and I never open the hood on my truck, they have gotten way to technical for me to work on.
So I was not to concerned because it is a S&W, so I called S&W customer service and they were great as always and said they were sending me a FedEx tag and send it back. I was assured I would have it back iin less than a week.
Overall I'm not to concerned about the whole experince I figure I will just put a note in with it asking them to see what they can do about the trigger while they have it. In all the 30 years I have been buying S&W products, they have always treated me well and that's why I stick with them.
When I get it back I'm going to take it right back to the range and start blasting away. I figure that with a little time I can master that trigger and the way it handles. It should be a real enjoyable experince for me with a little time and effort.
The reason I bought it like I posted earlier, was mostly just for the range 9mm ammo is cheap and I wanted a new 9mm pistol for the wife to use also when she went to the range with me. That part just didn't work out. The trigger is so bad she couldn't fire it the first couple of times. After coaxing her back to try it, she said she just couldn't handle it and refused to have any thing to do with it.
Now I take it home and start cleaning it and when I go to put the slide back on it, it jammed a 1/2 inch from the frame. No way could we get it to budge. More than likely it was my fault. I'm not the most focused person you ever met with mechanical items. My wife with never let me put together the kids toys and I never open the hood on my truck, they have gotten way to technical for me to work on.
So I was not to concerned because it is a S&W, so I called S&W customer service and they were great as always and said they were sending me a FedEx tag and send it back. I was assured I would have it back iin less than a week.
Overall I'm not to concerned about the whole experince I figure I will just put a note in with it asking them to see what they can do about the trigger while they have it. In all the 30 years I have been buying S&W products, they have always treated me well and that's why I stick with them.
When I get it back I'm going to take it right back to the range and start blasting away. I figure that with a little time I can master that trigger and the way it handles. It should be a real enjoyable experince for me with a little time and effort.
That is perhaps the silver lining to this cloud. Even when they mess something up, like the finish on my 642, Smith and Wesson stands behind their product.
I suppose if you didn't mind sending it off for work every time it needed it, the Sigma series of pistols could represent a tremendous value. After all every time something breaks you know it's going to be fixed regardless of the expense.
I suppose if you didn't mind sending it off for work every time it needed it, the Sigma series of pistols could represent a tremendous value. After all every time something breaks you know it's going to be fixed regardless of the expense.
A few months ago I was in my local gunshop/range looking at guns as I always do while waiting on a lane to shoot on. The gunsmith was my CCW instructor who I came to trust way too much for just a two day class, but he was just that sort of no BS guy. He works on the guns they sell in the shop and just about anything that a customer brings in. Before I go on I will tell you I have never had the occasion to so much as hold a Sigma. They are S&W so I always assumed they must be pretty good guns. Anyway, a guy walks up and starts talking to the gunsmith and although I was paying little attention, until he said flat out that "he would not work on a Sigma." He then asked the guy if he bought it from them. The customer stated that he didn't. He told him, "too bad, if you would have bought it here I would have credited you and sent it back to S&W. We will not buy or sell Sigma anymore because of all of the problems." I don't think I would recommend one unless it was to a BG....
Bugs?
From Mass? I think I'd bring it back to the Dealer that sold it to you, and ask him why he sold you that gun. <sigh> what city or town was he from? I'm in NH, and know a reputable Dealer that has FFL's in both states..<Ma and NH> Might be able to send yo uin the right direction for a better gun. Sorry that you spent that $$ for a new one, only to find it had problems. I do know the SW9V's were pretty rough. I'm NOT downing you in any way, just trying to give some good advice, cuz I know you'll carry the weapon, and you've got to depend on how the weapon will perform for you in a tight situation
From Mass? I think I'd bring it back to the Dealer that sold it to you, and ask him why he sold you that gun. <sigh> what city or town was he from? I'm in NH, and know a reputable Dealer that has FFL's in both states..<Ma and NH> Might be able to send yo uin the right direction for a better gun. Sorry that you spent that $$ for a new one, only to find it had problems. I do know the SW9V's were pretty rough. I'm NOT downing you in any way, just trying to give some good advice, cuz I know you'll carry the weapon, and you've got to depend on how the weapon will perform for you in a tight situation
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
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