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Any thoughts on the proposed no fly, no buy law. I don't know much about it. I know that I don't trust it if the antis are philibustering it.
 

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I've not agreed in principle with the majority of "airport security" - TSA - Homeland Security - and all the rest of the smoke and mirrors form the beginning.....

BUT - the right to bear Arms is Constitutionally Garaunteed, while Flying is not, so....
 

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Not a good idea. To be denied the ability to exercise a right without even being charged with a crime, seems a bit outside the scope of "Due Process". A lot of politicians see a lot of gun owners as having thoughts and views that they consider "dangerous". I don't want to let them create political enemies list that have force of law.
 

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BAD IDEA

any one for any reason can be added to the list ..No way to find if you on it and no way to get off other then changing your name

there is a vet in TN that has the same name as a IRA guy and has been arrested a lot flying ...Mind you the IRA guy has one arm and one and half legs ...
 

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I'll be in favor of it when before one is placed on this arbitrary list, they get to challenge it, thru due process of law. Being able to confront their accusers, in front of a fair and impartial court of law. If and only when they are found guilty in that court of law. Then their name can be placed on the list, and their 2nd amendment rights curtailed.

Until then... NO.
 

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I don't trust the feds to put anyone on a list with the authority of revocation of rights. With the spread of the PC mindset throughout government, and partisan politics enforcement and restrictions (like in the case of the IRS), this is a situation that is ripe for exploitation and abuse.
 

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It's silly.

Traveling via airplane isn't a threatening act, given the security screens folks go through. Merely being barred from boarding a commercial plane doesn't stop folks from traveling. Just stops folks from traveling very far very rapidly.

None of which has to do with the risk of a person in general, necessarily.

None of which has to do with a person's protected liberty to speak, associate, have counsel, have a jury trial, be armed, and all the rest.

NONE OF WHICH should be perpetrated against ANYONE without due process specifically done upon a person in open court of law. If charged and an independent judge and jury of one's peers can be convinced the accusations have merit, THEN (and only then, IMO) is there any lawful authority to dump on a person with such restrictions. And short of an outright act by a person, such accusations are merely the fearful lashing out by a liberty-despising elitist crowd who is vowing to destroy liberty and bury it.
 

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No fly ...
I have not been on a plane since 1987 and like it that way.
 
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you might be on it already, and don't even know !
 

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It is a horrible idea and very troubling. For one how do you get on the list? What is the criteria? Who makes the decision. What we need is another faceless bureaucrat acting completely arbitrarily screwing people out of rights without due process. For crying out loud the Orlando Shooter was removed from the list so it would not change a thing except making some emotional pansies feel better.
 

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The current administrations no fly no buy crap does not even match up with their own current narrative of hands off no conflict when it comes to Muslims in this country.
If that is not a giant red warning flag i don't know what is.
 

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Any thoughts on the proposed no fly, no buy law. I don't know much about it. I know that I don't trust it if the antis are philibustering it.
The latest backdoor method to ban gun purchases by administrative fiat. No way to know you have been put onto the list. No way to know who put you onto the list. No way to know why you were put onto the list by the anonymous bureaucrat. No way to get off the list. No due process, thus blatantly unconstitutional.

Note also that the FBI has already said that they will no longer take or process appeals to NICS denials. So there is no recourse and no due process there already. Again, the goal is to eliminate all firearms purchases.
 

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It's silly.

Traveling via airplane isn't a threatening act, given the security screens folks go through. Merely being barred from boarding a commercial plane doesn't stop folks from traveling. Just stops folks from traveling very far very rapidly.

None of which has to do with the risk of a person in general, necessarily.

None of which has to do with a person's protected liberty to speak, associate, have counsel, have a jury trial, be armed, and all the rest.

NONE OF WHICH should be perpetrated against ANYONE without due process specifically done upon a person in open court of law. If charged and an independent judge and jury of one's peers can be convinced the accusations have merit, THEN (and only then, IMO) is there any lawful authority to dump on a person with such restrictions. And short of an outright act by a person, such accusations are merely the fearful lashing out by a liberty-despising elitist crowd who is vowing to destroy liberty and bury it.
C'mon, ccw ! Due process is soooo passe' !
 

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The problem with the list is:

They don't tell you if you are on it (that would tip you off).

It is just a name - so if there are eight William Jefferson Clintons in the US and one is nominated for the list they are ALL on the no fly list.

You can get on it without the opportunity to challenge it (if it is a mistake) and there is no mechanism to get OFF the list.

You can get put on the list just because someone suspects you may be a threat. No trial, no opportunity to face your accusers. Some liberals may consider ALL gun owners a threat. So we may all end up on it.
 

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The lack of due process, secrecy of being on the list, and inconsistent methodology of the list are very problematic, and I agree with the others who object to "No Fly, No Buy" for that reason.

And in addition, I have another objection: Let's say that this Terrorist Watch List were actually a decent barometer of who was a threat (it's not...but for discussion's sake, let's say that it was). If we have such a list of dangerous people, shouldn't we be doing a lot more than just keeping them from buying a gun? If the Terrorist Watch List were actually an effective and accurate list, then we should be doing a lot more with it than simply "watching" the terrorists!

It seems like the gun grabbers are trying to have it both ways on this: using a list and methodology that is far from the final say (or even an effective) say on who our enemies are as a "clear and final" list of who should be denied a gun in America.
 

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C'mon ... Due process is soooo passe' !
The destroyers sure think so.

And so long as the courts continue to rubber-stamp this sort of crap, we'll keep getting the slick end of the stick.
 

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Some other fun facts about the no-fly list.
  • You may not be on the list they are using today, but if they raise the threat level, they use an expanded list and you might be on that one.
  • The no-fly list is only one of the government's terror watch lists and they do not all match up.
  • The government claims about 16,000 people are on the list. Do we really think there are 16,000 terrorists flying in the US? Also, many believe the real number is much higher.
  • The no-fly list has cost between 1/2 and 1 Billion dollars to administer, but the public does not know for sure.
  • The government does not claim, nor is there any independent evidence, that the no-fly list has ever led to the capture of a terrorist or stopped a terrorist act.
 
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