[kellyII]

hey guys and gals, just wanted to share something with you and ask if any have heard of this before.

Well I was looking at taking some more advance fighting pistol and force on force courses when I get home, just to stay sharp ya know.

well anyway they give a list of needed gear and so forth, then it says no serpa holsters this is from their website, what yalls take on this?

"Why no Serpa holsters?
An answer from our friend Paul Gomez: Begin Quote “Over the last year, I have developed some serious concerns with the Blackhawk Serpa Active Retention holster design. Various persons have brought these concerns to the attention of Blackhawk on several occasions and Blackhawk has chosen to ignore these very real issues.

The ‘Serpa Active Retention’ design consists of a plastic L-shaped component which functions as the release button [from the outside of the holster] and as the lock [which engages inside the trigger guard]. The short leg of the L-shaped lever pivots inward [toward the pistol], while the locking tab pivots outward to release the pistol from the holster.

According to the Blackhawk website, ”The release is made using your normal drawing motion, with the trigger finger beside the holster body. … As your trigger finger naturally comes to rest on the SERPA lock’s release mechanism, simply push the mechanism as you draw the weapon and it releases the gun for a smooth, fast draw.”

While Blackhawk may intend for the end-user to apply inboard pressure with the flat of the index finger, under stress, shooters tend to push the button with the tip of their index finger. After all, this is the manner in which most people have the most repetitions pushing buttons such as keys on a keypad or phone or ringing doorbells. When the finger pushes in on the release button and the user initiates the upward motion of the draw stroke, the finger tends to stay in motion and as the trigger guard clears the holster, the finger enters the trigger guard and contacts the trigger, with possibly tragic results.

I am aware of two instances where trained personnel have shot themselves using this holster in conjunction with Glock pistols. In August of 2004, a situation occurred with a live weapon that resulted in the shooter losing a 10cm piece of her femur. The other occurred with nonlethal training ammunitions in a force-on-force event in April of 2005. The impact of the NLTA was in the same area as the actual gunshot wound previously mentioned."

Now I have used a serpa holster and have never shot myself!!!
Im not so sure about going to this course or not now. They recomend a drop leg or a belt slide holster. Maybe they are just looking out for their client, but like I said, I have never heard of this..

 

[Saber]

Ok, I understand the design and I also understand the potential. Since all guns live in a world of Murphy's Law, I don't believe I would ever want one. Besides, I'm not that coordinated. ~
Regards,

 

[TerriLi]

Sounds like a training issue more then anything else, but thats my opinion. Its like going from a American style mag release to a european style grip heel mag release. I know a guy that did the same thing drawing from a Bianchi leather holster, lost one of his toes.

 

[Bark'n]

Kelly II...

There is one other issue I have heard regarding the Serpa, and I have no validation on this, but I read somewhere where there has been one or two incidents where very small pebbles have gotten wedged in the release mechanism while shooters were doing prone drills and such on a gravel covered "A Range" and it jammed the release mechanism preventing the gun from being released at all until the gun/holster had been removed from the shooters belt, very close inspection to find the problem and digging out the offending pebble with a pocket knife.

Again, while I only read the notice with no posted pictures, I have no way of verifying the validity of the report.

One can only assume how this can be a deadly situation although, to date I've heard of no reports of this happening over in the "sand box" where I understand the holster is fairly popular, and of course would be a prime environment for that particular malfunction to occur.

I too have a Serpa holster for my Glock-23 and like it just fine. It is very secure and like you, I've never shot myself using it.

These issues does give one pause... but I'm also from Missouri... The "Show Me" State.

 

[Knuckledrager]

I have posted here before about the serpa lock. I have gone as far as prohibiting them from being used at my job! My concerns are based on 2 factors. First, the mechanical failure issue caused by debris in the locking mechanism. Second, and far more important, the design of the lock requires an absolute dead on positioning of the trigger finger. I have seen a wide variety of skill levels miss the lock under stress (timed shooting, physical exertion etc) on a flat range with a static shooter engaging a static target in well lit conditions. When the shooter becomes dynamic and engages from a non traditional position, the fumbled releases increase dramatically. I have not seen issues, under these conditions with traditional thumb breaks, Safariland SLS, Safariland SS III and even the Safariland SLS/ALS combo. I think the have it all over the serpa.

 

[cuban11182]

Sorry to hijack , but if people are so against can someone suggest a holster that can rotate to facilitate the ability to crossdraw while driving for a H&K P2000? (that's a long sentence)

 

[gasmitty]

Kelly II... to date I've heard of no reports of this happening over in the "sand box" where I understand the holster is fairly popular, and of course would be a prime environment for that particular malfunction to occur.[/B]

Might be because a lot of Serpa users over there holster M9s, which have a traditional DA action. Long, deliberate trigger pull, longer and with higher force for initial DA shot than the Glock.

 

[redneckrambo]

I am a reserve posse deputy for a small department in Colorado. Std dept issue is glock22 or 23 and blackhawk serpa holster. Haven't heard of anyone here shooting themselves yet. I think it's mostly a training issue. Practice,practice, practice!!!

 

[Bark'n]

Might be because a lot of Serpa users over there holster M9s, which have a traditional DA action. Long, deliberate trigger pull, longer and with higher force for initial DA shot than the Glock.

I was referring to sand and gravel getting caught underneath the release mechanism causing the weapon to be "locked" inside the holster, unable to remove the gun at all.

I wasn't referring to the Original Post which referred to the negligent discharges from the index finger slipping into trigger guard and firing the gun as you made your draw and cleared the holster.

Totally different holster problem I was referring to.

 

[AZ Husker]

The only moving parts in my holsters are the guns being drawn.

 

[cvhoss]

Sorry to hijack , but if people are so against can someone suggest a holster that can rotate to facilitate the ability to crossdraw while driving for a H&K P2000? (that's a long sentence)

Would one of these work for you? BTW, I believe the photo is wrong as the item is listed as a belt holster, not a paddle holster but if you're interested, you may want to check for sure.

Hoss

 

[edr9x23super]

That sounds like a training and focus issue to me; nothing that additional training and presence of mind would take care of.....

After all, if LEO personnel can learn to use this type of holster safely, then so can civilians. As a sidenote, if my home state of Texas ever adopted an open carry law I would use some type of retention holster like a SERPA for retention and safety reasons....

Just my .02c

 

[ASSA9]

I,ve owned one for my G26 and I love it.
It works well for me and thats all I need to know.

 

[JimmyC4]

I suppose the danger could be eliminated by carrying without one in the pipe....:rofl:

The folks I know that use this holster have a need for retention. In my opinion, they benefit greatly from the retention capability of the holster and endure little of the risk described by the OP. If folks learn to use the equipment properly, it won't bit 'em!

 

[kellyII]

I also thought it was a TRAINING ISSUE, I mean I have crawled, layed down and drug myself and my serpa holster throug sand, dirt and everything else and have yet to have a my holster malfunction. I dont know, maybe I have just been lucky. But after what I have put mine through, I can tell you that I stand behind and have confidence in my serpa...

Not to mention, I have never had a ND, practice and practice some more. Even when were not out on a mission I practice drawing my weapon from my holster. I think one needs to do this on a regular basis, even if their holster is not a serpa....

 

[PaulG]

I have seen a lot of people who, when indexing their trigger finger on the side of the gun, do so with the finger curved and the only part of their finger touching the side of the gun is their finger tip.

For these people, I can see a potential danger.

I've played around with both methods and when I have my finger curved, I hit the trigger a lot when drawing from a Serpa.

I have always used a FLAT indexing of my finger along side the gun. My whole side of my finger touches the gun, not the fingertip.

Using this method, I have never even come close to hitting the trigger by accident when drawing from my Serpa.

As others have said, I think this is a training issue not a design problem.

 

[rathos]

no matter how my finger is placed my finger always comes out indexed on my serpa. i have been using the concealed version for a few years, and now my department issues them standard. I have used them with glocks, sigs and 1911's and never had any of the issues mentioned. I do know that blackhawk had a recall on the glock 21/M&P 45 model because of a fitting issue, but if they are so unsafe I don't see how my department and many others issue them.

 

[zbock]

I was in a tactical pstol class where one of the students was using one of these holsters. The instructor said he didn't like them and had an incident where a student shot himself in the leg while drawing.

Well sure enough during tHe course the student ended up discharging his pistol while drawing from the holster.

 

[horsedrover]

Using The Serpa Holster in Training or to Carry Concealed

I have rethought the Serpa holster in the case of my 9mm M&P S&W had a serious malfunction. On October 30Th, 2011 that pistol discharged while holstered in the Blackhawk Serpa. This resulted in a nice amount of bullet casing to enter my leg. After a stay in the local Emergency Ward, We tried this particular pistol in the holster various times. Now it seems to be that guns with trigger safeties tend to discharge in the Serpa Holster. (My M&P did it after 5 reholsterings and again after 21 reholsterings)! The same went with other models wit just trigger safeties. Lucky for me I carry a small standard Swiss Army Knife in my right pocket. This knife saved any further injury to my leg. Blackhawk has warnings out on the web about recalling certain models of the Serpa because of the same danger. I am a very experienced shooter with a good military background, but it would have been nice to know about this holster and trigger safety models of pistols in a warning of some kind. I can feel safe holstering a pistol withe a slide safety. My S&W .40 has this slide safety and I do not worry about it going off in the same holster! Now it is time to rethink the allowances of the Serpa holster in training classes. With the amount of people taking classes for the new Conceal and Carry laws, I foresee more malfunctions occurring to the uninformed consumer. I hope this will be some help with your die-hard Serpa fans. I have some great xrays to show the damage even a .9mm with ball target ammo can do. I am glad that I am superstitious enough to always carry a Swiss Army Knife in my right pocket. The day after the incident I replaced the knife with a new one! (I have all the old knife fragments and bullet fragments sitting in a vial that they used in the hospital).
If you are using one of the pistols with just a trigger safety on it, I would get into one of the leather holsters. I think now that if I would carry my M&P .9mm in public using the Blackhawk Serpa holster how a malfunction like this could be catastrophic to the public. This applies to Springfield and Glock models that I own. All this happened without my hand near the gun by the way.
Thank you

 

[horsedrover]

The above story was while the M&P was holstered for awhile and was clear of any hand movement I must add.
Thank you