Defensive Carry banner

1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,063 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
For about the last month I have been carrying a PT709. I really do like this gun. It is extremely small and thin. Thin enough that I can conceal it OWB even in a t-shirt. I have had the gun to the range 4 times so far and put about 600 rounds through it. Yesterday I decided to do a bit of testing. I put a target at 10 feet, fired 7 rounds. Then put a fresh target at 20 feet and fired seven rounds. I did this all the way out to 50 feet. I took about a second and a half pause in between each shot. I then brought the targets home and measured from the farthest hole to the farthest hole on each target.

My groups were as follows –

10 - 2 inch
20 - 3 inch
30 - 4 inch
40 - 7 inch
50 - 10 inch

I've read a lot of articles about defensive hand guns and accuracy and people shooting 3 inch groups at 25 yards. As you can tell I am no where near that. I had a couple of the much better shooters at the range shoot it and while their groups were better then mine past 30 feet they still weren’t what I would consider impressive.

So I am considering going up to something with a 4 inch barrel. Specifically something in the 1911 platform. I shoot my Colt 1911 series 80 a lot better then this past 30 feet. I know it won't help a ton but hopefully it would tighten up my groups out past 40 feet. I know that the smaller the barrel the less sight radius and the less accurate most people will shoot the gun but I also know that higher quality guns with higher quality barrels are generally going to be more naturally accurate. What do you think?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
13,685 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,153 Posts
My groups at 25 yards with my RIA tactical is around 3.5 inches. A 1911 is a good choice IMO. It is my EDC.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,081 Posts
JMHO.... I am a big Taurus fan the pt709 is a small self defense firearm it is not meant to be a target pistol. I carry a pt145 pro with Hinie sights daily can I drive tacks with it at 10 yards no....can I rapid fire 11 reload and put 10 more COM yes I think sometimes we forget what certain firearms are built for.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,178 Posts
Did you bench the gun or just shoot offhand? Intrinsic accuracy doesn't do much good if the shooter can't take advantage of it. I have a hard time shooting small guns well. Put a long, heavyish trigger with a small grip and I can't hit the barn. Guess how much I enjoy shooting my P-32?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,387 Posts
------------
"My groups were as follows "

10 - 2 inch
20 - 3 inch
30 - 4 inch
40 - 7 inch
50 - 10 inch
----------

The Odds are enormous that you will NEVER have to shoot beyond 10 yards (30 feet ) to defend yourself.

If you shoot better groups at a slower pace or with other guns I see no
compelling reason to change your carry gun.

:wave:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
401 Posts
A better test would be how long does it take you to shoot X number of rounds into a pie plate at a given distance. Or even better yet X/2 shots in each of 2 plates at different distances.

If you need to draw the guy you are shooting at will never stand still for 1.5 seconds to let you get another shot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,063 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Did you bench the gun or just shoot offhand? Intrinsic accuracy doesn't do much good if the shooter can't take advantage of it. I have a hard time shooting small guns well. Put a long, heavyish trigger with a small grip and I can't hit the barn. Guess how much I enjoy shooting my P-32?
I was shooting offhand.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,765 Posts
At 50 ft. your groups are 10" out-to-out, that's still COM of BG, what more do you need? I wouldn't worry about it... It sounds to me as if you've got a solid SD pistol, that's easy to carry...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,406 Posts
Unsupported with a compact pistol ... ?

There's nothing the matter with the accuracy. Try shooting over a rest and you'll likely cut the groups in half, at least.

If you are unhappy with the group sizes, I think you are expecting too much from a light, compact gun.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
50,585 Posts
If in a real life scenario and you're 50 feet away...run!:yup:
If 30 feet away...you still have time to disappear...:rolleyes:
Closer? You seem to be doing just fine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,169 Posts
I would not get rid of the gun. I would practice more at long range. But any excuse to get another gun is a good excuse.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,063 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
If you are unhappy with the group sizes, I think you are expecting too much from a light, compact gun.
It seems like every article I read that the reviewers are talking about shooting 3 inch groups from 25 yards.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,469 Posts
The groups you listed will save your life. That sounds like a good SD to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
236 Posts
Thats about what I shoot with my KelTec and the longest shot I practice is about 45 feet......and I'm happy with it. I think you're in the ball park on accuracy. Seems a lot of folks get really good once they sit at a keyboard.
I spent 18 years qualifying twice a year and those 3" groups at 25 yards were few and far between and were never me.......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,954 Posts
It seems like every article I read that the reviewers are talking about shooting 3 inch groups from 25 yards.
Are you sure you mean 25 yards and not 25 feet?
25 yards is 75 feet, not shooting distance for SD.
If you're practicing for defense you're doing fine. but if on the other hand, you're obsessive(like I am) you might be using the wrong gun for the purpose.
I practice my defensive shooting at 30 feet or less. One I've finshed that I do some distance shooting, just for the pure fun of shooting and getting better with each trip to the range. That said I don't expect my .38 snubbie to be as accurate as the 6" GP100.
Sure for accuracy I would like to put the rounds through the same hole, and I've done it a couple times. On the other hand for defense I'd rather put 5-7 separate holes in COM, for better drainage.:smile:
Each form of practice is different, but if you're practing for defense a 10 inch group is still going to cause the effect on a BG that you are looking for.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,198 Posts
One thing you have to consider is that pistols that shoot 2" or 3" groups @ 25 yards are usually shot from a Ransom Rest or bench rested which eliminates a lot or tremor and other errors.
I saw a video in which a custom builder claimed 2" @ 25 yards. He achieved this by not only using a Ransom Rest, but by firing in a special tunnel which eliminated all wind and by using specially loaded ammo tuned for the gun.
If you're shooting 3" groups @ 30' thats acceptable for SD purposes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
133 Posts
Rollo, try shooting over a sandbag. I have 9 handguns (at least the last time I counted--they tend to multiply if I don't watch them closely), ranging from snubby or compact size to full size to... pretty big. There's not one of them that won't shoot at least 3'' groups at 25 yards (most of the time) from a SANDBAG REST.

BUT offhand? I get really, REALLY thrilled when I can RARELY get a group like that at 25 yds. when I'm shooting offhand. Much more often I'm happy just getting all of them into an 8" bullseye.

Try a sandbag rest. Find out what the GUN will do. Then work on offhand skills to see how close you can get to that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
239 Posts
Heck, I can barely see the target at 25 yds!

I have seen USPSA/IDPA stages with 25yd targets, and even the best shooters have a pretty low percentage of scoreable hits. Bullseye this ain't.
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Top