Defensive Carry banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
217 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I just posted this at OCDC but thought I would share here also. I thought I would send a letter to my Sheriff and point out to him the contradictions between my CPL and the law. I faxed him the letter below along with a hard copy of the Alabama Tri-fold and State of Alabama Firearms and Weapons Laws (found at Alabama Gun Law Information).

Sheriff Franklin,

Good afternoon, my name is Shaun Reinert and I wanted to contact you in regards to the legality of open carry of a pistol in Alabama. I am relatively new concealed pistol license (CPL) holder in Elmore County. Since receiving my permit I have joined several internet forums for people with CPL’s in order to gain knowledge about concealed carry gear, situational awareness and to gather other information that will help me to become a safer and more responsible permit holder. During some of my investigation I have come across quite a bit of information that seems to indicate that open carry of a pistol is legal in the State of Alabama. I have attached two (2) documents that were put together by some folks at Alabama Gun Law Information. Would you be open to reviewing these documents and consider allowing persons within the County to carry openly without risk of arrest, detainment or possible revocation of their CPL? I’d also like to suggest a visit to the website listed above for additional information on the legality of open carry in Alabama.

Restriction #1 on my CPL states that the permit does not permit me to carrying openly, however after reviewing the attached documents it appears that it is completely within my rights to carry openly without a permit of any kind (as long as I am afoot and not in a vehicle) per Alabama Statute 13A-11-73.

Restriction #4 states that I am not allowed to carry my pistol in any place that serves alcohol. I realize that common sense would dictate that carrying while consuming alcohol is terribly irresponsible and should be prohibited. However, would you consider it ok to carry in a restaurant that sells alcohol as long as I was not consuming?

Restriction #5 restricts the carry of my pistol within government buildings, airport terminals, etc. However the Alabama Statute 13A-11-59(b) only restricts concealed carry while attending any demonstration being held at a public place. Also, the Statute 13A-11-72(c) & (d) specifically allows a citizen to carry a pistol on the premises of a public school as long as there is no intent to bodily harm.

In addition, the Alabama Statute 11-45-1.1 reserves the entire subject matter of handguns to the State Legislature, thereby voiding any and all restrictions on the CPL that are not in concert with the Alabama Statutes.

Please do not misunderstand my intentions. They are not to question or undermine your authority, but only to bring to your attention what appear to be contradictions between the law and the restrictions on my CPL. As a matter of preference I do not necessarily want to openly carry my pistol, but would like to have the option available to me, without the threat of arrest, detainment or revocation of my CPL, as it appears to be legal. Also, there is a large community of CPL holders across the State of Alabama, many of them here in Elmore County, that would also like to have this option. I know there is a concern about “man with a gun” calls and the difficulty in differentiating between bad guys and good guys, however there is a common saying I’m sure you have heard, “a right not exercised, is a right lost”.

Any thoughts or opinions you may have on this matter are greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance for taking the time to read this fax and review the attached information. I can be reached at the telephone number listed above or at my e-mail address: [email protected].

Thanks again,
Shaun

Well, 5 minutes after I sent the fax, my phone rang and it was Sheriff Franklin!! He was very friendly and we had a fantastic conversation. He said he is all for exercising of our rights, including the right to open carry. He stated that everything I stated in my fax was true and he agreed fully. His only issue was what I stated in my next to last paragraph regarding "man with a gun" calls. He said his deputies and other city police don't know if the person with firearm is a GG or BG. Their protocol is to approach and gather information "What's goin' on?" "How are you?" etc. If everything goes well then no problem. They have been instructed, and understandably so, that on the first indication that a confrontation may occur, then the situation is escalated accordingly. This makes me fell better about maybe one day getting a wild hair and choosing to open carry. He also stated that I would be hard pressed to find a Sheriff in Alabama that did not share his views on this matter. He also stated that my letter and the attached information was very informative and they he was to keep it and reference it if he ran into any issues or questions regarding OC.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
943 Posts
Good stuff, Monkeytown. I'm 40-miles South of Houston County (Dothan) Alabama. Don't know what the Sheriff's position is up there, but I haven't seen any OC yet. I'm up there once a week. Personally, OC doesn't bother me. It's the squirrely-looking characters that don't appear to be carrying that I keep an eye on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,864 Posts
Taken from OP letter to the sheriff;

He also stated that I would be hard pressed to find a Sheriff in Alabama that did not share his views on this matter.

Clearly he's mistaken, because according to HCI, (the Brady Campaign),
the vast majority of police chief's , sheriffs and state police Commanders are totally against the 2nd . amendment


also on a lighter note,,,,



He also stated that my letter and the attached information was very informative and they he was to keep it and reference it if he ran into any issues or questions regarding OC.

He was either sincere, , , , , , Or he will be running this newfound information by your states attorney general , to see if there is any way they can change this (crazy loophole)


"If we could get everyone in the world to close their eyes and imagine world peace for an hour, think about how serene it would be until the looting started."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
541 Posts
Well whatever his intentions are, you can only go by what he is telling you and what you believe to be true from him. I say good for you and good for him. I would think of him as a Liar, not atleast until he proves different.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
217 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Well whatever his intentions are, you can only go by what he is telling you and what you believe to be true from him. I say good for you and good for him. I would think of him as a Liar, not atleast until he proves different.
While I don't know him personally, my wife informed me tonight he a family friend and was in her uncles wedding. He has been the Sheriff for 19 years. Also, I don't think he would take the time to call me if his intentions were anything other than sincere. When I explained to my wife what a friendly guy he is she said "why do you think he has remained sheriff for 19 years?" Anyway I believe him, no reason not to.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
541 Posts
oops, in my post above I meant to say I wouldn't think of him as telling a Lie, I give a man the benefit of the doubt and take him at his word until he proves different.

If he has been sherrif for 19yrs, then he is doing something right then
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,499 Posts
Good job Monkeytown. You are already a better permit holder than most in your state. You have done your homework!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
631 Posts
So, you wrote a letter complaining about illegal restrictions on your permit. Your sheriff called you and you "talked" about your concerns. However, in the end, the restrictions are still on your permit and the sheriff has no intention of changing his policy of making those restrictions.

Where, in all of this, is there a "good" outcome?

The reason the guy has been sheriff for 19 years is because he can sling BS as good as a short order cook slings hash.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
217 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
So, you wrote a letter complaining about illegal restrictions on your permit. Your sheriff called you and you "talked" about your concerns. However, in the end, the restrictions are still on your permit and the sheriff has no intention of changing his policy of making those restrictions.

Where, in all of this, is there a "good" outcome?

The reason the guy has been sheriff for 19 years is because he can sling BS as good as a short order cook slings hash.
I don't think I ever said it was a "good outcome". What I said is that I had a good conversation with him.

Here is how I look at it. He acknowledged that OC is in fact legal in AL and that the restrictions on the CPL hold no water and he also stated they were put in place by one of his predecessors. He has no intention of removing them and my take on his train of thought is that it will reduce the number of people OCing b/c they do not know it is legal and therefore won't do it based on the permit restrictions, therefore reducing the number of MWAG calls.

My thought on the whole thing is that people who get their CPL should KNOW the law and thereby find out for themselves what they can and cannot do regarding OC.

Would I prefer that the restrictions be removed? Of course, it would remove a lot of confusion. Do I think the guy is slinging BS because he won't? No.

JMHO,
MT
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
225 Posts
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't oc legal without a permit since the permit is for concealed carry? Interested to know since I live in Dothan...
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,706 Posts
May I carry my pistol on my person in open view of the public providing I have obtained a Tuscaloosa County license?

ANSWER: No. The license only allows you to carry the pistol concealed.
Pretty common liberal tactic; lie with a half truth. Yes you only need the license for CC, therefore the license is only for CC; they said nothing about unlicensed OC being perfectly legal.

I do not know the state law there; BUT if you are positive you are on solid ground legally, if it were me: I would inform the sheriff of his violation of state law as the OP did, if that was unsatisfactory then I would OC down the main street of town and dare them to arrest me! I always wanted to retire early!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
The FAQ SHOULD say that you are allowed to open carry with or without a permit. I see what you mean about lie with a half truth.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
117 Posts
Based on an old Alabama Attorney Generals
opinion [Charles Graddick] (opinion #84-00205)
open carry is legal within the state of Alabama.
And, I can't find where its been superseded~?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Reading legal comprehension

I have had a few dealings with Franklin personal, none where I broke the law, different story. Rob P. is correct about Franklin, he is a politician. If you trust a politician no matter their orientation then you might need a sanity check. Im not saying he doesnt do his job well, but I have personal experiences with him that let me know he is more human and more prone to error and personal vices than you might currently believe. But my comment isnt about him, its about the Elmore CC. Specifically the one in my hand right now issued in 2010, yep out of date.
just read the stories and decide for yourself if Elmore County is a safe place to raise your kids
Two arrested in Wetumpka's second teen murder in week - WSFA.com: News Weather and Sports for Montgomery, AL.
First-grader killed in drive-by shooting - The Wetumpka Herald: News
Update On Wetumpka Pastor Arrested Case - WSFA.com: News Weather and Sports for Montgomery, AL.

Time for a legal grammar lesson. "This pistol permit does not permit you to carry a gun openly" is a true statement because the permit has nothing to do with OC, it only has to do with CC. The state law of Alabama permits you to carry a gun openly, the permit is powerless over OC, that is why the statement says. This wording was not written by an idiot, it was written by an Alabama state law lawyer. It makes people think the permit is restricting them from OC on purpose to discourage OC, just by words. Permits dont restrict you from anything. All of those "restrictions" on your permit were there before you got the permit. I am fine with it because I understand it and so does my lawyer :) It is your responsibility to at least understand your local and state laws knowing which one trumps the other. Then you can take it to the legal language level which I highly recommend for your complete understanding.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
Please be mindful of where you open carry in Alabama. The State does not restrict open carry nor does it expressly grant you the right. A such several Municipilaties have an ordinance prohibiting open carry. You can be charged with a misdemeanor.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,706 Posts
Please be mindful of where you open carry in Alabama. The State does not restrict open carry nor does it expressly grant you the right. A such several Municipilaties have an ordinance prohibiting open carry. You can be charged with a misdemeanor.
Do you understand preemption??? Do you understand US law is based on prohibitions NOT permissions, do you understand the difference?

Last Updated August 17, 2010

In 1982, Alabama enacted a specific handgun-related preemption statute, Alabama Code § 11-45-1.1, which states:

No incorporated municipality shall have the power to enact any ordinance, rule, or regulation which shall tax, restrict, prevent, or in any way affect the possession or ownership of handguns by the citizens of this state. The entire subject matter of handguns is reserved to the State Legislature. This section shall not be construed to limit or restrict the power of a municipality to adopt ordinances which make the violation of a state handgun law a violation of a municipal ordinance to the same extent as other state law violations, or to limit or restrict the power of a municipal court to exercise concurrent jurisdiction with the district court over violations of state handgun laws which may be prosecuted as breaches of a municipal ordinance.
The state chose not to restrict open carry; no municipality has the power to do so. Pick a city that bans OC and walk down mainstreet with an open holstered pistol, you probably won't be able to retire but it will make a heck of an initial deposit in an IRA.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FTG-05

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
The Code of Alabama does not even discuss open carry. I know the City of Alabaster has an ordinance prohibiting the open carry of guns.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
447 Posts
As f350 pointed out in bold print. The subject is reserved to the state legislature. By DEFAULT open carry is legal. It does not need to be discussed. Only the state legislature can declare it illegal. The City of Alabaster is prempted by state law NOT PROHIBITING it. The city should be notified that it has an ordinance that is not enforceable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
Looks to me that it only preempts the municipality from restricting the posession or ownership of a handgun. Not trying to argue, but that's the way it appears to read. I will try to check into it further though.
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top