Defensive Carry banner

1 - 20 of 167 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
149 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So I went out for a walk tonight & I was OC'ing as I usally have been doing & a LEO pulls over as I was walking past the squad car he shined his tac light at me & saw that I was carrying at that point they asked me to stop in whicn I did The first LEO asked me if I had my Permit I said yes I do officer he secured my firearm & I handed him my Permit & ID in which he proceeded to verify it. Then he came back to me re-holstered my firearm & handed me back my Permit/ID wished me a gould night. at that point I was on my home. I'm glad everything worked out. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,287 Posts
I would not have let him re-holster my weapon. For Philly, that is probably as good as one can expect, but that is not freedom or liberty.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
36,326 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
941 Posts
So I went out for a walk tonight & I was praying and carrying my Bible as I usally have been doing & a LEO pulls over as I was walking past the squad car he shined his tac light at me & saw that I was praying and carrying my Bible at that point they asked me to stop in whicn I did The first LEO asked me if I had my Permit I said yes I do officer he secured my Bible & I handed him my Permit & ID in which he proceeded to verify it. Then he came back to me gave me my Bible & handed me back my Permit/ID wished me a gould night. at that point I was on my home. I'm glad everything worked out. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
91 Posts
The LEO wanted to make sure you weren't a criminal since you were carrying the "tool of the trade." I guess my wife better be careful walking around carrrying the "tool of the trade" of prostitution with her everywhere she goes. We are being conditioned to "show our papers" folks........and to gladly do so.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,568 Posts
Rapists have a "tool of the trade." You do not see cops pulling men over, securing "the weapon," and verifying if they have a permit, then "re-holstering" it afterward.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,794 Posts
Unless there is a law in PA requiring you to produce a permit when you OC, you were likely unlawfully detained and searched. However, since you acquiesced, the police are off the hook.

It's up to you if you want to submit every time a cop asks for an ID/permit. Every time he does and every time someone submits, it reinforces his understanding that what he is doing is lawful.

If you don't want the "hassle" then ok. I won't judge. However, you should be aware of your rights (if you are not already) and learn about:

Reasonable Articulable Suspicion (RAS)

Probable Cause (PC)

The simple question "Am I Free To Go?"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37,046 Posts
Seeing as a license to carry is required in a "city of first class," I see nothing wrong with being asked to provide the permit upon demand, just as you are required to provide a DL upon demand when operating a MV. Right or wrong, that's the law, and the appropriate action for those who feel it's a violation is to have that law changed in the courts or legislature.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,401 Posts
When I was on patrol I checked the status of MANY permit holders, simply because there are MANY permit holders in Tennessee. I can recall only two that did not tell me they were carrying and I discovered the sidearm on them. The rest simply told me up front and I just verified their status. I NEVER encountered a single permit holder whose status was revoked, and only asked 1 or 2 to surrender their sidearm while I checked the status. They would just wait with my partner/back-up officer while I ran the check. In my experience you encounter a completely different type of citizen who has a permit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: shadowwalker

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,993 Posts
If you don't want the "hassle" then ok. I won't judge. However, you should be aware of your rights (if you are not already) and learn about:
This is why I changed my tune when it comes to what many here call ( OC Baiters )

I say more power to them!..and I'm glad they are out there.

I open carry at times. I also have my smart phone with me at all times and WILL record any OC stop that may happen to me.
What can I do about it if my rights are violated? Very little unless I have the time and financial resources to sue the officer, the city and anyone else within reach.

Bullies will bully those who are bully-able. I've said this a million times. You won't see a OC carry stop with a known celeb, a local politician or the sheriffs son!...
No more than you will see a sobriety checkpoint set up down the road from the Moose lodge or FOP party.

I'm not looking for a you tube moment whatsoever. Nor do I seek the hassle....

So I now say "God Bless the "OC Baiters")

If we don't take our rights out for a walk every so often and exercise them, they WILL cease to exist.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,033 Posts
Seeing as a license to carry is required in a "city of first class," I see nothing wrong with being asked to provide the permit upon demand, just as you are required to provide a DL upon demand when operating a MV. Right or wrong, that's the law, and the appropriate action for those who feel it's a violation is to have that law changed in the courts or legislature.
Well, if you think it is OK to pull you over whenever they want while you are driving to check your DL then that is just great for you. I think it is totally backwards for someone to check on your status of anything unless you have a reasonable suspicion they are doing something wrong. HUnches, also known as "fishing expeditions" don't cut it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,261 Posts
Many of the problems associated with open carry is the fact that many folks are led to believe that open carry people are breaking the law, not abiding by it. It is amazing how many people in places where open carry is perfectly legal do not know it.

This "misinformation" is most likely the result of the anti-gun people proclaiming that carrying openly is a violation of gun laws and not actually abiding by them. The Second Amendment says nothing about carrying openly a weapon being illegal to do so, and many states actually do not prohibit the practice. It's just not well known.

This is perhaps the main reason why I seldom open carry because of the people who do not believe I am well within my rights in my home state to do exactly that. Yet, If I want to open carry, I am free to engage in it, well for now at least.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,710 Posts
It has become painfully obvious that "our" government considers the exercising of our rights as protected by the constitution constitutes suspicion of illegal activity. A sad state of affairs my friends.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,172 Posts
So I went out for a walk tonight & I was OC'ing as I usally have been doing & a LEO pulls over as I was walking past the squad car he shined his tac light at me & saw that I was carrying at that point they asked me to stop in whicn I did The first LEO asked me if I had my Permit I said yes I do officer he secured my firearm & I handed him my Permit & ID in which he proceeded to verify it. Then he came back to me re-holstered my firearm & handed me back my Permit/ID wished me a gould night. at that point I was on my home. I'm glad everything worked out. :)
Wow. I would consider that a violation of my rights.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,153 Posts
OP that was not a good stop. A good stop would have been the PD looking at you and continuing to drive away. You were doing nothing illegal to warrant a stop.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37,046 Posts
Well, if you think it is OK to pull you over whenever they want while you are driving to check your DL then that is just great for you. I think it is totally backwards for someone to check on your status of anything unless you have a reasonable suspicion they are doing something wrong. HUnches, also known as "fishing expeditions" don't cut it.
It's not so much a matter of if I think what's right. the courts have allowed DUI/DL check points for many years. Everyone gets checked with or without any indication of any violations. If it's "licensed," it can be checked. It's not a matter of what you or I think is "right." If either thinks a law is "wrong" there is a course of procedure to follow.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,033 Posts
It's not so much a matter of if I think what's right. the courts have allowed DUI/DL check points for many years. Everyone gets checked with or without any indication of any violations. If it's "licensed," it can be checked. It's not a matter of what you or I think is "right." If either thinks a law is "wrong" there is a course of procedure to follow.
I bolded the part of your post that I was referring to. But here it is again:
I see nothing wrong with being asked to provide the permit upon demand, just as you are required to provide a DL upon demand when operating a MV.
Do you or you don't? I can only go by your posted words. I am not a mind reader LOL:smile:

And I do understand about the revenue enhancement checkpoints. I was not talking about those in my reply to you. Do you think it is OK for LE to stop anybody, including driving, to check for a liscense when there is no reasonable suspicion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
289 Posts
It has become painfully obvious that "our" government considers the exercising of our rights as protected by the constitution constitutes suspicion of illegal activity. A sad state of affairs my friends.
To some degree, our government is a reflection of the society it is supposed to represent. Like it or not, a significant portion of our population (and a clear majority in some places) see the mere presence of a firearm in the hands of someone without a badge or uniform as an existential threat that can't be tolerated. While the police should provide a buffer between the scared gun haters and our rights, that's not always the case. While we should have a reasonable expectation that our elected representatives at all levels of government, and the civil servants who are hired to implement and enforce our laws, feel a responsibility to protect personal liberty, I think we can all agree that's not the case. Many politicians, police officers, and bureaucrats lose their minds when in the presence of private firearms of any sort. There's many people out there in positions of authority who will do whatever they can to make carrying a weapon more difficult. They are responding to the many people out there who think that banning weapons will make them safer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
158 Posts
Personally, I don't think you can compare stopping someone driving a car to check their license to stopping someone open carrying to check their permit (in this political climate). Due to psychos shooting up schools, malls and movie theater, I say, let the LEOs do their job to make sure that someone choosing to open carry has a permit and is a law abiding citizen. When psychos start using their automobiles to commit mass murder, then start comparing the two.
 
1 - 20 of 167 Posts
Top