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Both my wife and I got home from school (both high school teachers) and we were dead tired so we decided to go out for a spot of dinner. I was sooooo exhausted in fact that I determined I wasn't really up to the alertness level of carrying my gun and doing so safely and responsibly. Anybody here ever experienced that? So we went to a nice dinner.....and took the pup (100 pound Newfoundland) to eat in a sidewalk cafe. On the way home I stopped to fill my tank with gas (price drops!) and as I started to pump, my little voice started screaming the "trouble alert." I'm always in condition yellow and when something happens to agitate that I kick into a higher mode even if I can't quite put my finger on the threat.

So I start looking around, carefully. No other cars at any of the other pumps. Inside the convience store about 50 feet from me were four latino males and they were MOVING as I saw the clerk dive for the telephone. I had the oddest feeling I was watching an aborted robbery in motion and here I was with my wife and beloved pup....unarmed and exposed with the gas hose firmly inside the car and chugging away. As they exited the store on the run I thought to myself they were a SALTY LOOKING group. Real punks. Didn't see any weapons. The clerk is on the phone. when he hangs up he inches out the door and carefully eases to the corner of the lot to see if they're still there and they're long gone. I asked him if he needed a witness and he said "no." So I finished filling my tank and left.

I kept thinking later; WHAT IF? and things got kinda shaky for me. I'm certain that had I been armed, tired or not, I could've dealt with the threat from my position behind solid cover (huge concrete pillar) but I doubt I would have acted unless they threatened to kill the clerk or somebody else or decided to approach me and the wife. Better to act as a good witness. But the fact that I was unarmed by deliberate intent was chilling.
 

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First I would say you were absolutely right not to carry if you felt you were not physically up to it. Fatigue is a big contributor to firearms accidents.

You were also alert enough to know there was some trouble going on. Fortunately the folks left the area versus messing with you. I'm sure you were planning an escape from the moment you realized there was a problem.

Personally when I'm that fatigued you would have a hard time getting me out of the house. Of course living 4 miles from town means that it is all the more tiring for us to go out anyway. So that is just my situation.

Your situation does reiterate that you never know when something is going to happen. Fortunately in your case nothing happened to you, which is good.

-Scott-
 

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Overall, proper and correct choices. This can really get into the James Bond realm, "Well, your wife should be able to drive your vehicle to safety straddling the console, one-handed; and your PPK never leaves you......".

The only "What if" I can see would be if they decided to try to jack you. In that event, it would be your read of the BG's- if you surrender the vehicle, do they let you go? If not, well, you have a gas nozzle handy...."water" everyone in front of you. Let's have a weiner roast...... :dead:
 

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I have to say, even if very fatigued I still would be carrying.

I'll qualify that by saying that I have found over my many years that when required I can (and have done this) kick into an ''emergency'' mode, shall we say. It is like throwing a switch and all tiredness goes - adrenalin maybe. If OTOH I felt this not to be the case and graded myself as not sufficiently competent then yes, perhaps I would leave the carry that time.

It is tho precisely because of situations such as Ex has related, that I maintain my dedicated carry status, wishing to try and never be without ''just that once'' when I might matter. We really just do not know.

Only today in the local paper was a story about a home invasion in town - an area which generally is low risk for most part. Not a common occurrence but - it reminds me why my carry even at home and in the office, is and remains 16/7.
 

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First, just me, but I would never stop for gas while unarmed. Gas stations are the most robbed venues in the US.

Next, I carry all of the time, again just me.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Bug

KC135 said:
First, just me, but I would never stop for gas while unarmed. Gas stations are the most robbed venues in the US.

Next, I carry all of the time, again just me.
Well, you're correct about that one...but I was not thinking extremely clearly. I'm thinking of carry a really small BUG in those cases...maybe my NAA mini derringer in .22LR in my pocket. It could be used at point blank range by jamming directly into an attackers eye and pulling the trigger for immediate cessation of the threat. But I'm not likely to engage anything that's not directly in my face.
 

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Nothing much for me to add other than I'm glad no one was injured in that situation you experienced ExSoldier....especially you, your wife and pup.
 

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ExSoldier

I know thay you sure did wish that you at least had a lil' "belly button gun" with you.
I'll bet that it's especially rough thinking about that incident...because your wife was also with you.
Glad that everything turned out OK.
I always carry "something" with me everywhere these days and...no matter how dog~tired I am. I'll at least carry a J~frame S&W stoked w/+P+ or my PPK/S & one extra mag.

BTW....we want to keep you as a forum member as long as is possible. DO always carry from this point forward! :wink:
 

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ExSoldier,

Glad to hear no one was injured...and with the world the way it is today, I carry. Like P95Carry, the energy comes from somewhere when survival mode activates. Stay safe...
 

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First things first, your families safety is Paramount. If those punks came rushing out of there with AK-47's I first would have ensured my familys safety and got them out of there. However, in your case the guys were empty handed or even if they had pistols they were not concerned with you so why be concerned with them. Get tags and a good visual. I am here to protect my family first. Because in the world we live in just imagine if you had your weapon and them guys came out of there armed and not thinking about you and you approach. Burp, burp, burp wife and dog dead. If I did have my pistol I would have told wife to get down and, watched and observed prepared to defend if I could not have just gotten in the car and left. Then called from my cell. Just because we CCW does not mean we are savior of the world because most people these days (not family and friends) don't appreciate it any way. :cool:
 

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Despite what many may expect I agree with Blue's assessment on this one. Here you were OUTSIDE of the store, not trapped inside in close proximity to the BG. In this case taking cover and getting descriptions and plates would be the correct tactic. Were I inside I would have to seriously consider engageing the BGs. Despite being outnumbered I think it's a bigger risk to being a bystander who may be suddenly slain out of hand before I could react.

As to being too tired to carry, I can't conceive of a situation where I would think myself that tired. I've been pretty tired in my time due to lack of sleep and stress, and in those situations I still carried my weapon, stood to my post and engaged the enemy.

In civilian life in order to feel I couldn't carry due to fatigue or the effect of medication I'd have to be incredibly tired or messed up, the equivelent of not having slept for days. In that case I'd also be too messed up to drive, or even think straight, so I'd stay home, get some rest and then take care of whatever business I had to do.
 

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Several years ago in Little Rock, a gas station was robbed in much the same manner as described in the story by 3 black males. Unfortunatley, 3 people were killed.

One was the store clerk, who did exactly as he was told to do according to the tapes that were viewed by Police.

Another was a young woman that was in the wrong place at the wrong time. She had just purchased a gallon of milk and was about to exit when the 3 armed males charged in.

The last one was a college student that was at the gas pump and just happened to be watching. He was killed as the perps left the scene.

Two of the thugs were caught within 2 days. The third had apparenty left the state. When questioned as to why they killed the people, they simply stated that they didnt want any witnesses. They were high on crack when apprehended and said that they were high on crack when the robbery occurred. Neither one showed any remorse for the victims.




I said that,to say this...

Sometimes just being a witness to a robbery is motive enough for a perp to kill you. If he decides to kill you, you'd better have your gun in your hand at the first sign of trouble. It dosent mean that you have to interevene in the event that you hear shots fired, but if they come out the door and notice that you are watching, the action is going to be fast and furious, escpecially if there are mutiple armed scumbags.

Chances are they are in an altered state of mind and you are going to need all of the advantage that you can get.

Surviving an encounter and living to tell your grandkids about it someday should be your first priority. Being a good witness comes only after your personal safey is ensured. Its a cold hard fact of life that Murphys Law often appears when you least want it to. The ONE time you leave the gun at the house is gonna be the ONE time you need it. Even having the gun with you dosent guarantee anything. What it does do at the very least is give you a fighting chance and if you die...at least you die trying to win.

That is much better than being killed for no other reason than being a witness...
 

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The ONE time you leave the gun at the house is gonna be the ONE time you need it.
HG - that sir is the way Murphy works - and I don't mind being called a pessimist because I carrry all the time!!
 

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I'm very glad the both of you (and the clerk) came out of the situation unharmed.

If you were dead tired, you shouldn't have gone for dinner and gas. Being exhaused and driving can be dangerous. There's been a couple days I've been driven to and from work because I was too fatigued to drive myself (and with Nashville drivers, you need to be alert!). I also know what it's like to be too tired to cook. Microwave something, even if it isn't that elegant. At least you're at home where you can kick your shoes off and fall asleep on the sofa. :smile:

I do believe P95 is right that your body, though tired, will kick into emergency adrenaline mode in an urgent situation, elevating your strength and alertness long enough for you to handle a situation. Maybe you wouldn't take a longer shot or do riskier tactics like you could do when at full physical and mental capacity, but I think you would've at least been able to defend yourself and your family at close range if the thugs decided to confront you.

If you were really, really exhausted and had an adrenaline dump, you might keel over and pass out afterwards - not good. I mention that because I overworked myself with long hours in college and passed out from fatigue. Witnessing your own body slowly slumping to the ground and hitting the bathroom door and not being able to do a doggone thing about it is scary. I almost did it again after overworking in college again and jogging a block. I turned pasty and got really lightheaded, and sounds and lights faded out. I had to kneel to try to keep my head from swimming. It took me several minutes to recover. That's one of my worst nightmares - to pass out in the middle or the end of a life and death scenario because I was incredibly exhausted and overexerted myself. So please - if you're really exhausted, stay home! :frown:

Again, I'm very glad you made it out okay.
 

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You're getting lots of feedback, Ex. Glad you and the loved ones came through the experience with no harm done. I never carried for most of my life, and just started this year. I've been lots of places and so far, never had a truly bad experience. That said, however, things seem to get worse every year. There have been home invasions, purse snatches of elderly women in broad daylight, and , as mentioned earlier, lots of gas station robberies. Now, I carry ALL the time. I don't think you'd ever be "too tired" to defend if need be. Stay safe. I enjoy you're input and certainly don't want to loose your contributions because Murphy caught up with you.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Gimme some credit here....

Betty said:
If you were dead tired, you shouldn't have gone for dinner and gas. Being exhaused and driving can be dangerous. There's been a couple days I've been driven to and from work because I was too fatigued to drive myself (and with Nashville drivers, you need to be alert!). I also know what it's like to be too tired to cook. Microwave something, even if it isn't that elegant. At least you're at home where you can kick your shoes off and fall asleep on the sofa. I do believe P95 is right that your body, though tired, will kick into emergency adrenaline mode in an urgent situation, elevating your strength and alertness long enough for you to handle a situation. So please - if you're really exhausted, stay home!
Betty, I never said I was so tired I couldn't drive. I HAVE been to that point and at those times, indeed I do stay home, skip dinner and go to bed...eat a big breakfast next morning. I just said I felt not up to being responsible to handle a gun. That's a higher threshhold IMO than the act of driving around town.

Also, and I didn't specify this, but I live in a section of Miami called Coral Gables... a sleepy little village with minimal crime. Anytime I head into areas I call Indian Country and having been a parole officer down here I know these....I either don't go or I'm always armed. Remember there are still places where I cannot be armed like at work or on the trip to and from work and a lot can happen at those times. I compensate with my alert levels which clearly were working the other night....I think had one of them come at me, I'd have taken a scene from the movie POINT BREAK and used the gas hose to drench 'em and then invite them to the weenie roast....theirs. That was mentioned above, but I already had it in mind at the pump.
 

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I carry even if I'm tired. I can also understand Ex's reasoning behind not carrying. He didn't want to have an accidentat shooting, and knew his limitations. Hopfully, the Wife will have his weapon at the ready "just in case"
 

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Betty, I never said I was so tired I couldn't drive. I HAVE been to that point and at those times, indeed I do stay home, skip dinner and go to bed...eat a big breakfast next morning. I just said I felt not up to being responsible to handle a gun. That's a higher threshhold IMO than the act of driving around town.
Sorry ExSoldier, I based my critique on exactly what you said.

Both my wife and I got home from school (both high school teachers) and we were dead tired so we decided to go out for a spot of dinner. I wassooooo exhausted in fact that I determined I wasn't really up to the alertness level of carrying my gun and doing so safely and responsibly.....I was not thinking extremely clearly.
A firearm and a motor vehicle are both machinery that can hurt and kill. Both require clear physical and mental capacity to operate responsibly. When you tell everyone you were dead tired and sooooo exhausted that you did not have the alertness level to carry a gun safely and responsibly, that meant your mental and physical functions were impaired to a great degree. You shouldn't have been driving.

While you made the decision to not carry if you felt you were unsafe to handle it, you made the wrong decision by getting behind the wheel impaired. And opting to go out in public (unarmed) instead of staying at home greatly increased the scenarios you'd need a gun for.
 

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Just my two cents:

I have (to my great dismay) never received any CCW training, so maybe I lack the necessary background knowledge, but my intuition tells me I should rather refrain from driving than carrying when I'm very tired.

Traffic participation is something we do every day, and it's mostly uneventful, often even boring. I drove over 200 miles on the way home yesterday night, and had I not had a brilliant selfmade sampler in the CD player that kept my spirits up, I'd have had to take a break to take a little nap.

A life-threatening situation, though, is something we (hopefully) experience rarely if ever ans as other posters pointed out, adrenaline kicks in. You may not be able to maintain condition yellow, but when you get kicked into condition orange or red, you'll be quite aware and focused.

Plus, I remember learning in biology class at school that it's not really your body that gets tired, but your mind. The brain needs sleep, the body could keep going for 3 days straight. Don't know if that's entirely true. If it is, some people I know shouldn't need any sleep at all. :rolleyes:

Anyway, my point is this: Driving a car can take hours and it's quite possible to fall asleep at the wheel because driving is such a boring routine task. And your car is a threat to the people around you as long as it's moving. Your gun, on the other hand, is only dangerous when and if you draw it. And when you do that, I assume that you'll be so high on adrenaline that you've never been more awake. So, I can't imagine a scenario where I'd endanger someone by carrying while tired. Unless, of course, I'm a "sleepshooter". :tongue:

If I'm dead wrong, please educate me.

Oh, and... glad nobody got hurt! :smile:
 
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