[joe/OH]

I'm trying to figure out how to deal with Ohio's CCW vehicle law that requires you to have the weapon 'on your person' and in 'plain sight'. Here is the actual code:

Ohio Revised Code 2923.16 (E) and (E)1 state: (E) No person who has been issued a license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code shall do any of the following: (1) Knowingly transport or have a loaded handgun in a motor vehicle unless the loaded handgun either is in a holster and in plain sight on the person's person or it is securely encased by being stored in a closed, locked glove compartment or in a case that is in plain sight and that is locked;

I have an IWB holster for a full size government model 1911. A good portion of the gun is exposed above the waistband and is definitely 'visible' if the shirt is tucked in behind the holster. In your opinion (I'm not asking for legal binding advice), would carrying this way in the car (with the shirt tucked in behind an IWB holster) meet the requirements to carrying 'on the person and in plain sight'?

If this is too risky, how would you vehicle carry? Note that the holster isn't very easy to put on in a car and leaving the gun out of the holster is not an option as the leather can lose its form.

 

[P95Carry]

either is in a holster and in plain sight on the person's person

IANAL!! I am sorry for you folks there and hope this absurdity gets removed asap.

My own interpretation tho would be in a literal sense. Question - is gun visible and thus in plain sight from an appropriate direction? I mean if right side carry then it sure can't be seen from driver's window! - but yes from suitable vantage point it will be visible, even IWB with much of gun to be seen.

This seems so open to interpretation but I'd reckon that from any legal standpoint, if uncovered in a holster - thus ''available'' for plain view, then that would be my defence in court should that occur. It could also be argued that you were wearing it in plain sight per the law to best of your ability. I'd only worry if it was fully concealed from any sight.

Only my very humble 2c tho!

 

[joe/OH]

Thanks for the response. I know, it is entirely subjective and it isn't defined anywhere what 'plain sight' means. I'm primarily worried about LE and how they would interpret it. CCW is fairly new in my state and we're still trying to work out the bugs. Hopefully these things get fixed soon. In the meantime, I don't want the hassle of a LEO confiscating my weapon and taking me to court for carrying a weapon illegally (I really have no idea what would happen in this case...)

Obviously, NOT getting pulled over is the easiest way to ensure this doesn't happen. However, where I work I am sometimes kept until 2:00 AM and have an hour drive home on mostly state highways. 2:00 AM is incidentally when most bars close...

 

[havegunjoe]

Just a suggestion but you may want to purchase a cheap OWB holster just for car carry.

 

[P95Carry]

I share the concern here for sure. Just occurred to me too that even if left carry for left handed or cross draw - even that is hardly gonna be too visible in a traffic stop. The whole thing is actually in the realms of the absurd!!

I guess too - in a stop - much would depend on the cop in question - pro or anti etc.

I think I would add this - if stopped, try and do everything right - hands on wheel after window down - wait for cop - state carry status and ADD - ''I am carrying in plain view in a holster on my (state which side), how would you like me to proceed?"

Unless then a cop is gonna fabricate evidence after the event - it should help that you have brought up this point up front. Even better would be an in car witness but seems like you'll on your own.

Anyways - this is what I reckon I would do.

Being old and gray tho too would probably make a cop less nervous if stopping me! I know for some, younger folk get a more difficult time. manners and attitude tho as always make a huge difference to outcomes.

 

[Euclidean]

Here's kind of a dumb thought: what about a clearly visible chest or shoulder holster?

 

[the-fly]

when i need to open carry in my car, i just tuck it between the seat and the transmission hump, its clear visible, but the gun is right next to me, doesnt shift around even during a hard brake, and its super quick to draw.

 

[DonWorsham]

I have an IWB holster for a full size government model 1911. A good portion of the gun is exposed above the waistband and is definitely 'visible' if the shirt is tucked in behind the holster.

Joe,

I believe your carry would be considered legal if the gun can be easily viewed from the opposite window. Have a friend walk up from the passenger side and look in. If they see it okay, an LEO should see it okay also.

I carry mine IWB at about 4 o'clock in a Ford Explorer. The center console blocks the view from the passenger side.

 

[Kentucky]

I live just across the river from Ohio and I travel across the bridge fairly frequently and was told that when leaving Ky and going to Ohio, I had to take the gun 'out of concealment', remove the mag and the cartridge from the chamber and separate them , then lay the gun in the open on the passenger seat or elsewhere in plain view, then when exiting the car, you can re-holster the gun loaded again. Wierdest of all 'ccw's' I think. In West Virginia , just across another bridge from here, the gun can remain concealed while driving just like here in Kentucky.

 

[joe/OH]

Thanks all for the suggestions. I have considered a second holster worn outside of waistband or even on the chest. (Seatbelt holsters won't work because they aren't considered 'on the person's person'. Why the heck they word it that way I'll never figure out.) Similarly, having the gun available off the 'person' is illegal as well.

The problem is going from vehicle 'non-concealed carry' to regular concealed carry. As I stated, putting on the IWB holster isn't easily accomplished especially while sitting and is definately not discreet. I can't leave the holster on with the gun out of the holster (and in a secondary holster) because the leather will lose its form.

Joe,

I believe your carry would be considered legal if the gun can be easily viewed from the opposite window. Have a friend walk up from the passenger side and look in. If they see it okay, an LEO should see it okay also.

I carry mine IWB at about 4 o'clock in a Ford Explorer. The center console blocks the view from the passenger side.

Don, thanks for the advice. I am pretty confident the gun with be visible from the passenger window, so hopefully there won't be a problem. I'll just have to be sure not to give anyone reason to pull me over. :1saufen:

 

[joe/OH]

I live just across the river from Ohio and I travel across the bridge fairly frequently and was told that when leaving Ky and going to Ohio, I had to take the gun 'out of concealment', remove the mag and the cartridge from the chamber and separate them , then lay the gun in the open on the passenger seat or elsewhere in plain view, then when exiting the car, you can re-holster the gun loaded again. Wierdest of all 'ccw's' I think. In West Virginia , just across another bridge from here, the gun can remain concealed while driving just like here in Kentucky.

Kentucky,

If you don't have a CCW in Ohio, you can transport a firearm in a vehicle in one of four ways:

Your gun must be transported according to Ohio law (2923.16). An unloaded gun must be transported in one of the following ways:
(1) In a closed package, box, or case;
(2) In a compartment that can be reached only by leaving the vehicle;
(3) In plain sight and secured in a rack or holder made for the purpose;
(4) In plain sight with the action open or the weapon stripped, or, if the firearm is of a type on which the action will not stay open or which cannot easily be stripped, in plain sight.

But if you take a look at the ORC as quoted in my original post, if you have a CHL and as long as the gun is 'on you' and visible 'plain sight' it's fine. The other way is to put it in a locked glove box or a lock box that is also visible 'plain sight again'. And KY/OH have reciprocity so no problems there.

 

[Bumper]

I would go with two holsters, one on me and one permanently visible inside the car and switch as needed. Regarding "the leather losing its form", I have never seen anything like that happen with any of mine, which I do sometimes wear without the gun in it. Your holster should be fine, but you might benefit from input from one of the holster makers here, too. :wink:

 

[Hask12]

It's not perfect

I wear a Lou Alessi CQC/S OWB holster which snaps on and off the belt. When I'm in the car I make sure I slide my shirt behind the holster. When I'm getting out of the car I just flip my t shirt over the holster and it's concealed. It's a stupid rule but not the end of the world. A little over a year ago we couldn't carry concealed at all, so I deal with it, joined Ohioans for Concealed Carry and am helping to try to get the law changed.

 

[ka0azs]

"...I can't leave the holster on with the gun out of the holster (and in a secondary holster) because the leather will lose its form."

Then you need to get another holster. My Ted Blocker ST17 IWB retains it's shape fine without the weapon in it.

"when i need to open carry in my car, i just tuck it between the seat and the transmission hump, its clear visible, but the gun is right next to me, doesnt shift around even during a hard brake, and its super quick to draw."

Does not meet Ohio requirements. As others have stated, it must be on your person.

I carry IWB with shirt tucked in behind the pistol most of the time. If I'm going to be spending an exteneded amout of time on the Interstate (i.e. the domain of the Ohio State Patrol, the ones that got this put into legislation) I have a simple tanker style holster I can throw on, leave the IWB in place, and then switch back and forth as needed.

Again, as others have stated, we can hopefuly get this nonsense delted from the code.

 

[Scott]

I just drove across Ohio twice this weekend. I was going to carry but couldn't ascertain whether or not the rest stops would be off limits. The question was answered everywhere I stopped. All were posted no firearms/weapons. The gas payment booths were as well. I guess I don't have to worry about carrying in Ohio. :tongue:

-Scott-

 

[Mrs Bakeryman]

when i need to open carry in my car, i just tuck it between the seat and the transmission hump, its clear visible, but the gun is right next to me, doesnt shift around even during a hard brake, and its super quick to draw.

That will get you hauled off to jail in Ohio, it MUST be carried on your person and in plain site which, like has been said, in Ohio, depends on how the State Trooper feels about it. Had one tell me that he was all for the carry law but his advice is just don't carry it.

I have a waist pack holster that the front zips opens all the way up and lays flat out in my lap. My gun is in a holster against my abdomen and in very obvious plain site.
My husband wears a holster strapped around the top of his leg when driving and just switches holsters when he get's out. (He takes the leg holster off though).

Euclidean: Here's kind of a dumb thought: what about a clearly visible chest or shoulder holster?

I thought of making one, if I ever get to it, I'll post a pic.

 

[Hask12]

look again

You might find that there is more to Ohio then gas stations and rest stops. Rest Stops on interstates prohibit the carrying of a concealed weapon. That is not the case off the interstate.

 

[Scott]

You might find that there is more to Ohio then gas stations and rest stops. Rest Stops on interstates prohibit the carrying of a concealed weapon. That is not the case off the interstate.

I'm know that is true, and I have seen much of Ohio pre-CHP law. However these days, when I'm driving 950 miles in a day, I use the service plazas on the tollway. So given the way I travel, there is no need for me to worry about carrying in Ohio. The only places I would want my gun on me in Ohio are the very places it is prohibited. I have to say Ohio rest stops aren't nearly as scary as I-95 or I-66 in VA. I won't stop at a rest stop in VA period.

-Scott-

 

[Baby Hulk]

Thanks for all the input!
My CCW instructor told me that clipping the holster to the shoulder harness part of the seatbelt was 'legal'.
I guess this is why I don't CC as much as I'd like until OH clarifies this stupid law. :frown:

 

[dpesec]

Hulk,
I've been stopped by the OHP twice. Both times the Trooper was on a DIU fishing trip.
The first time I had the piston in the glove box locked, the second the trooper was able to see the butt of the piston. Neither was a problem.

If you want you can go to http://homebasedgroup.com/holsters/ they have a velcro thigh holster that will make your piston visible no matter what way the LEO approaches.