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The new Kansas CCW law has a goofy sign provision, and it looks like the blissninnies who own many businesses (a lot of them banks) are already promising to make their businesses Victim Disarmament Zones.

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New law leaves Wichita businesses gun-shy
Banks and sports bars are reviewing their firearms policies before Kansas' concealed-carry law takes effect Jan. 1.

BY NICHOLAS JUNGMAN
The Wichita Eagle

Some local businesses are making plans to ban concealed weapons on their premises when a new state law goes into effect Jan. 1. In particular, many banks and sports bars say they will post signs that make clear their customers can't bring guns inside.

"We are not going to allow weapons in Champs Bar & Grill," said Dennis Lanham, owner of the sports bar at 1106 S. Seneca. "Alcohol and guns do not mix."

The new law recognizes that opinion, to a degree. Passed March 23 by the Kansas Legislature over Gov. Kathleen Sebelius' veto, the law lists drinking establishments as one of 21 venues where concealed weapons are prohibited.

But the law makes an exception for drinking establishments that are also restaurants. If a bar generates at least 30 percent of its sales from food, it's a restaurant under state law, and a person with the proper permit could carry a concealed weapon there. Most of Wichita's sports bars qualify as restaurants.

However, the law also allows individual businesses of any type to ban weapons at their own discretion simply by posting signs at their entrances.

Champs Bar & Grill plans to exercise that discretion.

Lanham, the Champs owner, says he's not a fan of the concealed-carry law, but he'll adapt to it. He's planning not only to post signs banning guns, but to have a gun locker where patrons can check their weapons.

"You know, just like the old Western days," Lanham said.

Tina Rose, bar manager at Heroes Sports Bar in Old Town, said her restaurant wants to keep guns out but isn't sure that simply posting a sign prohibiting them will have much effect.

"How are we to know if they're not concealing and carrying?" she asked.

So if Heroes does decide to ban guns, Rose said, it may go the extra step of doing pat-down searches of customers on its busiest nights.

"It's one thing that's in the back of our minds," Rose said. "But we'll cross that bridge when we come to it."

On the other hand, Dave Chaffin, owner of Players Sports Bar at 6200 W. 21st St., said that, although he doesn't like concealed-carry, he's assuming it won't be a problem.

"In 23 years, I've never seen a firearm in this place," he said, "and I don't expect to see one in the next 23 years."

Banks are another business sensitive about guns, and some are wrestling with what their policy should be.

Diane Iseman, vice president for corporate communications at Intrust Bank, said the bank already has a clear policy that would prohibit a bank employee from carrying a firearm at work.

But, she said, the bank will have to consider what its policy will be for customers' firearms.

"That will definitely be under review here," she said.

Teri Ginther, executive vice president at Emprise Bank, said that because banks are always at risk for robbery, they need a firm policy on concealed weapons. But the bank hasn't decided yet what that policy should be.

In the past, Ginther said, bankers' instincts have been to get anyone with a weapon out of the bank as quickly as possible. She worries that if customers begin carrying concealed weapons into branches, one of them someday will witness a robbery and try to get involved.

"My greatest fear is that someone will take the law into their own hands," Ginther said.

Still, she isn't sure whether posting a ban is the answer.

Local banks could take their cues from area banks that do business in states that already allow concealed weapons.

Both Commerce Bank and Bank of the West will prohibit weapons at their Kansas branches, spokespeople said, just as they do in other states.

Commerce Bank's director of security, Chuck Mansell, has dealt with the issue in the bank's home state of Missouri.

There, Commerce Bank branches have signs at their entrances advising customers that they cannot bring their weapons inside, Mansell said, and similar signs will go up at Kansas branches.

Mansell said he thinks the signs work.

"Generally, we believe all law-abiding citizens will abide by our request," he said, noting that no Commerce facility had ever had an incident involving a customer's concealed weapon.

Reach Nick Jungman at (316) 268-6467 or [email protected]


Time to start contacting local businesses and letting them know that if your guns aren't allowed than neither is your money.

Ohioans have been passing out these little cards:

Some enterprising Kansan should start printing them up and passing them out.
 

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Zund - that needs fought tooth and nail - I guess these folks forget that BG's do not obey laws and signs' and hell - those are the people to worry about and not legal good guys! Same old crap eh - no logic, just gut emotion nonsense.

I certainly fully endorse voting with the wallet - move bank accounts, do not patronize - and tell em why!!

No way should this hoops'n'hurdles stuff even have to be fought but it sure needs a wakeup call. When oh when will idiots realize how tempting gun free zones have to be to bad guys - best places to attack.
 

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Don't sweat that stuff. Oklahoma was like that when they started in the late 90s. They have since mellowed greatly on the restrictions from what I can tell. You don't see the pretty little No Gun signs that were everywhere when CCW was introduced.
 

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I don't suppose it ever occurs to any of these idiots to look at other states and see what impact their CC laws have actually had?

Do they somehow see their citizens as being different, maybe less trustworthy than those in other states.

I'd love to see their public officials called on this one.

First, they voice their fears of "blood on the streets," then fail to notice when it simply doesn't happen.

Idiots. Guess I answered my own question.

mm
 

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That seems like the typical knee-jerk reaction. I bet most of it is from ignorance due to media brain washing. But, you've got CCW, and each year you'll have opportunities to improve it.
 

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So if Heroes does decide to ban guns, Rose said, it may go the extra step of doing pat-down searches of customers on its busiest nights.
No way in hell would I submit to that!:mad:
 

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Article said:
In the past, Ginther said, bankers' instincts have been to get anyone with a weapon out of the bank as quickly as possible. She worries that if customers begin carrying concealed weapons into branches, one of them someday will witness a robbery and try to get involved.

"My greatest fear is that someone will take the law into their own hands," Ginther said.
This line of thinking always baffles me. If I'm in a bank with an armed robber, and there isn't a cop there to confront him, and he points his gun at me, you're damn right I'm going to defend myself.

jarhead 79 is absolutely right. There will initially be a scramble to print up "No Guns" signs and then eventually they will go away. I have a stack of those No Guns = No $$ cards in my wallet and I have yet to give out a single one. Why? Not a single business that I have gone to in the last 4 months has a posted sign, except my work, and the hospital where my wife works. Many have taken down their signs when asked to.

It'll blow over in Kansas like it did everywhere else. People forget that there are 39 other states where citizens carry.
 

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"We are not going to allow weapons in Champs Bar & Grill"

Same for Champs here in Colorado. Must be a corporate policy. I never go there, of course. (Bars are not legally defined "off limits" for concealed pistols in this state.)

Regarding the "no guns/no money" idea...

It's true that we who have permits get them because we have no felonies on our records. We and the issuing authorities know that for a fact. I don't favor businesses preventing me from carrying, and I won't patronize them.

But I can see one point on the side of such business owners or managers which is never discussed: they don't know who has or doesn't have a permit. If a gun-hating manager "makes" someone with a concealed pistol, he has no idea whether this person is an angel like us or a felon who might cause problems.
 

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One good thing about the new Kansas law is that it defines a process for eventual reciprocity with other states. So I can dream of carrying concealed in Kansas someday.

By comparison, I understand that Nebraska's new law has no provision for reciprocity.
 

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Anubis said:
If a gun-hating manager "makes" someone with a concealed pistol, he has no idea whether this person is an angel like us or a felon who might cause problems.
If you're not "causing problems" it doesn't matter who you are you're not a problem ... its foolish to create a policy that only those not predisposed to "causing problems" are going to abide by when you're target is the "problem causers".

There's another option: a felon who isn't going to make problems.

I used to hang out in a little bar in Wichita that had more than its share of 1%ers and I only saw a couple of fights there EVER and they were usually a couple of drunk friends slapping each other around a bit and then they'd cool off and go finish their beer. I knew at least a dozen people (felons all) who carried guns there constantly.


That said, I have no problem with businesses having the right to put up any sign and make any policy about whom can and cannot enter their establishment ... but they also have the right to suffer the consequences of putting those signs up (be it lost businesses, or in extreme cases like "whites only" signs; pickets).
 
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