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As I understand Missouri law in this particular instance, no crime is committed until a carrier is told to leave the premises and refuses. I would ignore the sign and go on about my business. That's just me, of course.
Per state law, it must be a minimum of 11" wide, 14" high, 1" lettering and PROMINENTLY displayed. The mall does not follow this law. According to city code, however, one could post it on a postage stamp sized poster in the corner under the eaves and be in compliance of a notice. There is no size or placement requirement.
 

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You could say the same for nightclubs, theaters and concert venues. It all adds up. I would say any venue that is a gun-free zone with a lot of people is a target for a mass shooting. Even if you do the math on schools, the numbers are pretty low.

With your logic, you really don't need to carry at all. The average carrier's chance of ever needing a gun is pretty slim.
Millions of people in this country never carry a gun, or need one for defense, for their entire (long) lives...this is an indisputable fact.

Then again, millions of people’s homes won’t burn down; no matter I still have fire alarms and extinguishers.

But I haven’t installed a sprinkler system, or any other more effective measures because of “well, it COULD happen”.

Quite bluntly? The chance of being killed in a car accident to/from that mall is orders of magnitude higher than being in a mass shooting event...but I bet you aren’t wearing a crash helmet, or installed 5-point harnesses, etc in your car...

This is where I say, people just aren’t doing the math.

Look; if strapping on a big pistol to go wherever makes you feel warm’n’fuzzy, have at it.

But trying to justify it because a mall is a “higher threat zone”? Sorry, that dog just don’t hunt.
 

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@Cuda66: I agree with your last conclusion. I think the parking lot of a mall is a bigger risk than the mall itself. But my point is that malls do have a risk history and they have all the hallmarks of an attractive mass shooting target. But I would never "gun-up" to go to a mall.
 

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Per state law, it must be a minimum of 11" wide, 14" high, 1" lettering and PROMINENTLY displayed. The mall does not follow this law. According to city code, however, one could post it on a postage stamp sized poster in the corner under the eaves and be in compliance of a notice. There is no size or placement requirement.
I was thinking more about force of law than signage.
 

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I'm not sure, all thing considered the caliber change from 9mm kurz 9x17 to 9mm Luger 9x19 is all that important.

But what is important is you feel you have the right defensive weapons for the place you are going.

Always trust that "little voice". For me it is never wrong.:smile:
 

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There is nowhere I'd rather have a 380 to defend myself than a 9mm.
There is nowhere I'd rather have a 9mm than an M60 and a walkie talkie to call in artillery. But I would rather have something that shoots than nothing.
Why is it 380 or nothing?
Work attire, that might limit one to carrying a pocket 380 "best they can do" which was not the case for OP in this thread (or me ever, anymore).
One can dress as they like when going to the mall (restaurant, movie, shopping, ect...) a Glock 19 size pistol is easy to conceal.
 

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I prefer 9mm over 380
What are the other differences? :confused:
Per Ellefritz's study, the .380 is tops in a few important defensive numbers. His conclusion is that any of the service calibers are reasonably equal in real-world shootings from a defensive standpoint.
 

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5 events, over 12 years, in how many hundreds (thousands?) of malls in the US?

You might want to redo your math.
You might want to do your research. This was just the first site that came up. And it is from 2012.

November 12, 2011 – James Coleman, 22, killed two people at the Arundel Mills Mall in Hanover, Maryland. Coleman was later shot and killed by police officers athis home. The mall shooter also wounded a police officer.

November 26, 2008 — Barry Lee Saunders Jr., 21, killed one person at the Westfield Southcenter Mall in Tukwila, Washington. Saunders was captured in Portland four days later.

December 5, 2007 — Robert Hawkins, 19, killed eight people before taking his own life at the Westroads Mall. Five more shoppers at the Omaha mall were wounded during the mass shooting.

April 29, 2007 — David Logsdon, 51, killed two shoppers and wounded a law enforcement officer before being shot and killed by the police at the Ward Parkway Center in Kansas City, Missouri.

February 12, 2007 — Five people were murdered and four killed at the Trolley Square Mall in Salt Lake City. Sulejman Talovic, 18, was ultimately shot and killed by police officers.

November 20, 2005 — Dominick Maldonado, 20, wounded seven people at the Tacoma Mall. Maldonado also took four hostages at the Washington shopping center bNovember 12, 2011 — James Coleman, 22, killed two people at the Arundel Mills Mall in Hanover, Maryland. Coleman was later shot and killed by police officers at efore he later surrendered.
https://www.inquisitr.com/442037/deadliest-mall-shootings-in-america-timeline/
 

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There is nowhere I'd rather have a 380 to defend myself than a 9mm.
Per Ellefritz's study, the .380 is tops in a few important defensive numbers. His conclusion is that any of the service calibers are reasonably equal in real-world shootings from a defensive standpoint.
For me, 9mm > 380 without a doubt. (I don't own a 380 anymore, no point; I can (and do) easily carry something bigger than a pocket 380)
EDC is Glock 23 preferred over Glock 19
(The 19 is okay, but I'm willing to sacrifice two rounds in exchange for bigger bullets)
 

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Why is it 380 or nothing?
Work attire, that might limit one to carrying a pocket 380 "best they can do" which was not the case for OP in this thread (or me ever, anymore).
One can dress as they like when going to the mall (restaurant, movie, shopping, ect...) a Glock 19 size pistol is easy to conceal.
I never said it was 380 or nothing. I was implying it is personal choice and that if there is a gunfight none of will probably have all the gun we might want. As you say, people can dress like they want and not everyone wants to be a slave to dressing like you want them to so they can cover a larger gun. It is their choice. Why should anyone tell anyone else how they should dress or what they should carry? There are people who would criticize you for "only" carrying a 9mm and not a .40, a .45 or even a 10mm and that's not fair either.
 

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For me, 9mm > 380 without a doubt. (I don't own a 380 anymore, no point; I can (and do) easily carry something bigger than a pocket 380)
EDC is Glock 23 preferred over Glock 19
(The 19 is okay, but I'm willing to sacrifice two rounds in exchange for bigger bullets)
Me as well and only slightly larger...To each his own i say...I think people mistake a persons preferences and reasons for
bashing their choices sometimes.
 

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I was out of town for my youngest daughters twelfth birthday so I promised her that we would go out together and shop for a special present from just me when I got back. So I'm getting ready this morning and I slip my LCP .380 in my pocket and I started to think....I'm going to the mall with my most precious belonging, I need to carry something more substantial. So I grabbed my 9mm, extra mag and my Spyderco. It sucks that we have to think that way but I'm thankful we are able to. Thanks to all of my fellow vets that served and has help to protect our rights!
This is the reason why I'll never own another .380. I've never bought the whole "it's just a quick run to the store" business. Ask yourself: if you KNEW you were going to actually need a gun before leaving the house, would it be a .380? If the answer is no, then either carry a real gun or stay home.
 

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...An LCP is not a handgun I would ever want to shoot if I had arthritis...
Well, arthritis and all, I can still usefully shoot my wife's Kel-Tec P-3AT.
I guess it's because I carried a mini-pistol in .45 for all those past years. Nowadays, a mini-pistol in .380 seems easy as 3.1415926.
 
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I want to be careful how I say this because I really don't want to come off as an elitist know it all.

I don't claim to have a lot of training. I consider myself to have a good grasp on the fundamentals.

Having said that, I've been lucky enough to get to talk to and ask questions of a lot of people who do have a lot of training and real world experience.

I'm not sure exactly how to explain this but I have observed the across-the-board with these people there's a (for lack of a better word) basic load that they carry. They don't seem to bounce around with a lot of different guns for different situations.

That's not to say that they don't have different guns for different situations but it seems like the base-line minimum is 10 rounds of 9 mm and at least one reload. In fact I'm almost positive that Tom Givens specifically recommends that you carry no less.

It seems like no matter where they're going they don't go below that base line. So I try to emulate that. Not because I'm Tactical Timmy but because I feel like these people know more than I do so I take their word for it.

So not to be a caliber snob but there is no place in my present circumstances for a .380 caliber pocket gun. My basic minimum is my glock 26 with a 12 round magazine and one Glock 19 magazine as a reload.

It doesn't matter where I'm going it doesn't matter who I'm with I won't carry less than that (Always assuming it's legal) I'm going to say it again at the risk of sounding offensive but if I really thought that whatever I was getting into was so sketchy that I needed more than that I wouldn't go. I literally would not go.
 

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There is nowhere I'd rather have a 380 to defend myself than a 9mm.
Why is it 380 or nothing?
Work attire, that might limit one to carrying a pocket 380 "best they can do" which was not the case for OP in this thread (or me ever, anymore).
One can dress as they like when going to the mall (restaurant, movie, shopping, ect...) a Glock 19 size pistol is easy to conceal.
I never said it was 380 or nothing. I was implying it is personal choice and that if there is a gunfight none of will probably have all the gun we might want. As you say, people can dress like they want and not everyone wants to be a slave to dressing like you want them to so they can cover a larger gun. It is their choice. Why should anyone tell anyone else how they should dress or what they should carry? There are people who would criticize you for "only" carrying a 9mm and not a .40, a .45 or even a 10mm and that's not fair either.
I didn't tell anyone how to dress.
I used Glock 19 as my example because the OP went with a 9mm for the mall trip rather than a 380 - and I said 9mm > 380 for me anywhere/everywhere.
However, I also have a Glock 23 and I carry it rather than the 19, because I prefer 40 over 9mm - but 40 was not an option in the OP.

Some people are unwilling to dress around anything larger than a pocket gun, even when they could. <--- Statement of fact, nothing more, nothing implied.

I asked the question what gun have you carried most in the last 30 days? This past summer and 70% of 200 replies reported they carried bigger than a pocket gun.
https://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/defensive-carry-guns/459252-what-handgun-have-you-carried-most-last-30-days-update-page-12-a-20.html

When I post that there is nowhere I'd rather defend myself with a 380 than a 9mm most people on here agree, they reported carrying bigger than a 380.
But for some content to bet their life on a pocket 380 when they could carry something bigger (if they wanted to) they apparently see my post and be like ...


:lol:
 
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