[BlueLion]

Tonight our local news ran a story about two men who entered a quick mart store and forced everyone down where they were standing while they robbed the store. Guys if in this situation what would you have done if you were there and armed. Things are getting worse everyday and more and more bad guys are becoming bolder. I am even strongly considering putting up the Snubby .38 SW and carrying the Milspec and just dealing with the weight. I may have to to begin spending alot more time with it. Anyway friends what do you think.

 

[P95Carry]

Blue - indeed, to heck with weight which is my approach - I want full size and good capacity.

In this situation?

Well not knowing layout etc etc - and therefore what field of fire might have been - just a chance I might have nailed both of em if rule #4 could have been followed. But OK - so so many variables not being there.!!!

I don't know their demeanor, what guns they had - whether they were threatening with those guns - and so on.

Any more detailed write-up on this? Be good to have more to go on.

 

[BlueLion]

From the news 95 the store camera showed two suspects one carried what looked like a small glock. He carried down by his side and made one guy lie face down in the aisle. I would guess that this took place all over the small store. I placed myself in that situation and although I love my 38 my milspec with a 8rd wilson mag would have made me feel more safe and sure of myself. Well I will check back 95, but the wife as a fresh strawberry cheese cake slice waiting for me.

 

[P95Carry]

the wife as a fresh strawberry cheese cake slice waiting for me.

Hahaha - priorities Blue - priorities LOL :biggrin:

 

[QKShooter]

Good Thread ~ I'll never get down

I have thought about this long and hard.
I won't ever face the wall or kneel or lie down for a BG.
Even if that means I catch bullets and die.
Naturally, I intend to make every effort to make sure that just won't happen. :wink:
I absolutely refuse to subjugate myself into the Nightly News as being the next poor "execution style" slaying. :dead:
Some Bad Guy will Exit Planet Earth before I finally give up my ghost.
If any of you ever read about me in the newspaper...the story won't be about how I kissed the ground & took a possible bullet to the back of the head.

 

[rocky]

Guess it depends on the situation. If they were not directly threatening me I would comply to a point. Too many variables to say "I would do this" without knowing what the layout and senario was.

 

[Tangle]

I have thought about this long and hard.
I won't ever face the wall or kneel or lie down for a BG.
Even if that means I catch bullets and die.
Naturally, I intend to make every effort to make sure that just won't happen. :wink:
I absolutely refuse to subjugate myself into the Nightly News as being the next poor "execution style" slaying. :dead:
Some Bad Guy will Exit Planet Earth before I finally give up my ghost.
If any of you ever read about me in the newspaper...the story won't be about how I kissed the ground & took a possible bullet to the back of the head.

Ditto that for me, and BTW, that's exactly what Clint Smith says, but in his own way and words of course.

 

[RSSZ]

I'm definately(completely) with QKShooter on this one. Think about it long and hard before this happens to you. Go through senario after senario with a "what will(should) I do" thought process. Make sure to remember----- if you even just "put your hands up",this will severely limit your reaction(response) time in case you HAVE to defend yourself or others. The ??? is---how far do you let this go on. Where do YOU draw the line. This decission will have to be made by you and only you. This is just another reason why being a CCW'er is such a tough decission. Believe it or not---- I have been teaching students in this senario,they decide to go for their primary weapon--THEN-- "no wait,let me see,should I,no not quite yet,well maybe,ok,now,etc. I have had students start their presentation then just freeze or put their hands back up. Don't let this be you. And by the way. When you have made your decission to present your weapon---DON'T just pull it and point it. If your gonna do this, then you might as well leave your ammo at home. ----------

 

[Tangle]

blue,
This is not an "I told you so" by any means, but I have been saying ever since my revolver experience at Gunsite, and even before that, a revolver isn't that great of a fighting gun. As you obviously were able to visualize yourself in that situation, you must have begun to think that way too.

So if I may rant for a moment. We have been fed the cliche, "The first rule of a gunfight is to have a gun" for so long we no longer think that the gun or type of gun matters. It does matter, and I think you are very wise to reconsider what you carry. I coined an expression long ago that goes, "If you're in a gunfight, how light the gun is for convience of carry and how easy it is to conceal doesn't matter in the least; only bullets and hits count."

I just read a story of an off duty police officer that was in a fast food store when an armed robbery occurred. The BG, with his gun in hand, ran toward the officer and the officer fired 11 times and reloaded before he approached the BG. Most of his 11 shots hit.

We seem to believe we can do much better than this officer because we've all heard, "If I can't get it done with five, I'm in deep **** anyway." Well, here's yet another example of five not working; it took 11, and if IIRC, 9 were hits. If this officer had been carrying his lightweight revolver he would have run out of ammo, and I feel certain he would not have had time or opportunity to reload. A hi cap semi may have been pivotal in saving this officer's life. Rant off.

In the situation you reported, there were two BGs. Had you been in the store, you would have had five shots, right? For two armed BGs?

 

[Greymoor]

My biggest problem with this situation is that once you are face first down on the ground you have severely limited your responses to the BGs actions. Many would say that a ccw holder cannot legally shoot unless threatened with bodily harm or death. How are we to know when we are only being robbed or that the situation will escalate to murder. It's a little late to do something when the gun is placed to the back of your head.

-If you shot the BGs before they had done anything besides declaring a robbery the leftist media would paint you as a trigger-happy redneck.
-If you pull your weapon and try to make them surrender they will have time to think and possibly escalate to a two on one gun battle with innocents all around. If they have long guns they will know they have you outgunned.
-If you wait until they start to shoot people, providing you were not the first shot, would you have the time to stop the BGs before being shot yourself? If you managed to survive how would you feel about the innocents killed while you waited for the BGs to do something?

For myself I would have to see how the BGs acted. If they constantly threatened to shoot someone I would have to take that as a serious threat of great bodily harm or death and act accordingly. I would not give up my weapon or put myself in a position (handcuffed, tied up) that I could not use it. Too many people have been found tied up with bullets in their heads.

I guess the adage that it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 would hold true for me here.

 

[RSSZ]

I feel that a revo is an excellent fighting handgun if used properly with the right ammo.

 

[Tangle]

A lot of people do. I bet that off duty PO won't carry one!

Proper ammo, target opportunity, motion, shot placement all come into play.

Since I have a choice of whether I face a life threatening situation with 5 or 15 rounds, the choice is a no brainer for me. I'm sure though that many will prefer the 5 though.

 

[P95Carry]

I was not too concerned at just 5 when I carried the SP but am certainly better prepared with 15 now.

I am remembering once more the news item from - what - year ago maybe? The young folks who all but allowed themselves to be shot execution style - and one girl somehow survived and raised the alarm. Hard to imagine and I am with QK - only way to go is fighting to the last - no other option cuts it.

 

[QKShooter]

Being told to kneel ~ Face The Wall & lie down or "Be Taken To The Back Room" by an Armed BG is exactly the threat of grave bodily injury.
Your lawyer can produce 500 different "past & previous" bloody morgue photographs of hapless victims that were murdered execution style during the commission of crimes.

 

[Tangle]

I have no doubts that can be situations that would be a hard call. But for the specific and simplified case above, when they ask me to get down, the gunfight is on. I would hope I could bring all my tactics and shooting skill into play to resolve the problem. As I said, I hope!

And I suspect "Courage is not the absence of fear" would be all to true, I hope.

 

[QKShooter]

BTW Ditto RSSZ & Tangle & Chris

Being forced into a compromising or helpless position in the presence of armed known BG/BGs subsequently causes you to lose your potential ability to retreat or get away from that deadly threat.
So action is justified. Just my logical opinion on that.
Everybody needs to decide for themselves if, when, & how they will react to an armed threat.
There is a 50/50 chance that if you play meek, wimp, & humble you'll walk out alive.
There is also the same 50/50 chance that you'll meet a pitiful, sheeple~like demise just for the "no witnesses hellovit"
Sorry, that's not the way I want to ever go.
I don't ever want to croak on a crack~head whim.
Decide ahead of time for yourself & then act accordingly.
I personally would rather tip those 50/50 odds toward my favor & hopefully let my training allow me to walk away alive.
It's not a decision that anybody can make for another person.

 

[Scott]

The three strikes laws have created a situation where armed robbery or assault is a life sentence if they guy already has two strikes. So the price is the same as murder in some jurisdictions. So they have nothing to lose and everything to gain by killing any witnesses/victims.

So I will not comply with any demands from the BGs to do anything. I will prepare to fight for my life using any means at my disposal. I figure I have everything to gain by trying to take out the BG before he takes me out. What I do really depends on how close the BG is to me and what my potential range of movement is versus his. I'm not above diving right through a display to create havoc to get an edge.

-Scott-

 

[grnzbra]

Being told to kneel ~ Face The Wall & lie down or "Be Taken To The Back Room" by an Armed BG is exactly the threat of grave bodily injury.
Your lawyer can produce 500 different "past & previous" bloody morgue photographs of hapless victims that were murdered execution style during the commission of crimes.

This might not be good enough. It will be necessary for him/you to demonstrate that you were aware of these things at the time you pulled the trigger.

 

[Bud White]

I have thought about this long and hard.
I won't ever face the wall or kneel or lie down for a BG.
Even if that means I catch bullets and die.
Naturally, I intend to make every effort to make sure that just won't happen. :wink:
I absolutely refuse to subjugate myself into the Nightly News as being the next poor "execution style" slaying. :dead:
Some Bad Guy will Exit Planet Earth before I finally give up my ghost.
If any of you ever read about me in the newspaper...the story won't be about how I kissed the ground & took a possible bullet to the back of the head.

Same here

 

[SARR001]

I'm with QK and the others here. The only time my knees hit pavement is when I'm at the track o my bike. I have a semi and either 15 or 31 rounds depending on which I'm carring. I don't take life lying down and am certainly not having my life ended that way.