Defensive Carry banner

1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
25,483 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Not really a new subject but one which I think is worthy of consideration.

I am well aware that the best con-man - is the guy who seems so darned ''normal'' we could be forgiven for being taken in!! Smart, intelligent - almost the ''nice guy next door''.

I wonder tho if we project this to the occasional armed BG then we might get caught out. Probably most bad guys are crude, semi-dumb or totally dumb but the odds could be that here and there is the guy who is (appears) so OK and normal, we'd hardly give him a second glance. If we were to be confronted by such, I wonder how much we might be thrown off guard!

There is naturally a lot to be said for being in a relaxed con' yellow - necessary if we carry in particular but - in the same way as we perceive BG's seeing certain types as potential victims, might we also all but ignore until rather late - the apparently ''nice guy'' BG!!?

Bottom line is what I often preach - ''expect the unexpected''. "Never assume".

Just musing - something I do quite a lot :smilez:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,355 Posts
Like Tom Cruise in "Collateral."

What do we look for?

Successful fighter pilots use a decision making process called the OODA loop. The anachronism stands for Observe, Orient, Decide, and Act. The goal is to spin the loop fast enough to penetrate the OODA loop of the adversary and win. Training can expedite the observation and orientation. Experience is a key to fast decision making. Effective action requires skill. It can be essential to find the right compromise between deadly hesitation and the speedy action of reckless abandon. Perseverance prevails, sometimes with the help of blind luck.

Observation begins with the scan. Most sheeple in condition white have a 90 degree cone of awareness in front of them, if they are not preoccupied. Sometimes they glance ahead, but they don’t observe. On the other hand, secret service agents are in condition orange and observe their complete sphere with hard scans that would be seen as “over the top” in a convenience store setting.

Avoid staring or undue eye contact which may cause confrontation. Rather use unobtrusive scanning to cover the full circle around you in random cycles. Observe static points of interest quickly and then monitor dynamic changes for things that seem unusual, illogical, or out of place. The static environment assessment looks for avenues of possible attack or escape, obstacles, concealment, and cover. The constant dynamic assessment catalogues moving objects and all individuals. Among people near you, estimate who would be a likely subject of attack and from where it would originate. Note backgrounds that would preclude a shot.

As you assess others, look for their hands and eyes. If you can’t see them, they should be a priority concern. While an angry or troubled person will telegraph his anxiety and assault intent through body language, the danger signs of a stalking predator aren’t as obvious.

Watch for thoracic breathing, especially with an open mouth. Watch for the white of the eye showing above the lower eyelid and a slouched or unkempt appearance. Notice hesitant but unabated movement toward a command position or a victim. Watch for controlled, mechanical, or jerky gestures, especially patting, securing, or protecting hidden objects on their body. Note darting eyes and rearward glances, or frequent eye contact with accomplices or a stationed lookout. Beware anyone who creates a distraction or initiates a conversation with a stranger while approaching them. Steer clear of self-involved but idle groups that just appear to be hanging out.

When waiting in lines, angle your strong side toward the space you leave to the back of the person in front of you. Eye contact with the person behind you should be enough to keep them at a distance.

In public restrooms, always use a locking stall, but the clatter of guns and ammo on the tile is unprofessional. Don’t try to catch a falling gun. Secure it in the cradle of your trousers or on your handbag in front of you, out of sight. Be careful of loose speed loaders or magazines, and remember to take everything with you when you exit.

While brief, initial eye contact will indicate others who are also aware, you still can’t trust even the most well dressed or innocent looking not to be a psychopathic killer. Awareness serves as a beacon to ward off common predators who are assessing you, too. Keep your head up and turning with the nonchalance of calm vigilance. Keep good posture, poise, and balance. Keep your strong hand free and be ready to drop everything if you have to duck for cover. A confident demeanor and purposeful stride will likely keep the bad guys looking to surprise an easier victim.

What are other things we should watch for, and how can we pick out the "normal looking" BG?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,011 Posts
Chris, I think you're talking about the scariest critter of all: The true and natural predator. A sociopath who can still function, at least on the surface, and interact in society without folks tumbling to his true identity. TED BUNDY was such a creature. My studies in criminal justice suggest that there are at least 50 such predators operating in this country at any given time. They usually range over a wide area and often times their activities are sporatic in timing. I'm referring of course to serial killers.

As far as other sorts of predators that seek to pursue easy money, sure there are lots of those around, but I'm not sure they're of a violent nature. The bunko artists, scammers, embezzlers, etc.

But real violence against a sheep is a serious indicator of the sociopath. He might be a killer or a rapist. Certainly the two are linked and certainly one can escalate into the other.....usually from lesser to greater. Even greater abominations can rise from that.

Witness the Dahlmer cannibalism scenario. This guy started out harming animals and progressed to people. That wasn't enough of a rush...so he started having ummmm "dinner" too. But it was all tied into sexual power as the original motivator.

I wonder how many of THAT type of HORROR lurk among us?

I also think that these "creatures" see themselves as being KING of their environment, even if they hold a fairly lower level job or position in society. They probably hold a "personna" or "alter ego" in check until the hunger grows out of control and then they strike. But even in the strike they see ALL of society as placid sheep and they themselves as the maurading wolf. I don't think it is even a remote possibility that the sheepdogs rest among the flock and that is to our advantage. These creatures of incarnate evil probably see the police and all agents of society as pitiful examples of resistance to their "rule." These types of predators are rarely captured...usually because they are very careful in the stalk and the kill. I think it's possible that they are killed more often than they're caught and when that happens the nature of their predatory activities does NOT come out. What do you think?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
25,483 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Jim - I think you have considerable appreciation of this genre!!

Indeed maybe - rarely captured but sometimes ''taken out''.. and yes - the archetypal predator is perhaps a good label!

The old saying - ''all is maybe not what it seems'' is possibly a good thing for us to bear in mind in daily life! I have to remind myself that appearances can sometimes be deceptive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
199 Posts
P95, good points, you never know what a BG is going to look like. Just the other day I had an incident, that proves those points.

I went into a store, I frequent regularly, it's a mom and pop store around the corner from my house. The owner know's I carry concealed and has no problem with it, I actually talked him into taking his no guns on premises sign down, but that's another story. When I pulled into the parking lot, I noticed a guy, who looked like a thug, using a coat hanger, trying to get into a car.

He was the typical pants down to the knees baggy clothes, ya' know the type, I'm thinking broad daylight, noone would be that bold here. I park my car and go in, the owner looks a little freaked out, I gather up a few items and go to the register, he ask's me if he should call the "cops" I said for what, he said I know you saw that gansta', around the side of the store trying to get in that car. I said yeah, he says when you go out would you mind checking that situation out? I told him just because I carry a gun, doesn't meen I'm a LEO, long story short I've known the owner of this store for 5 years.

So I went out and asked this guy, you need some help? He turned around and said yeah stupid me, locked my keys in the car, upon further inspection, yup keys in the ignition, doors locked, I asked where he got the coat hanger, he said the dry cleaner, across the street. Bottom line this guy may have looked like a thug, but acted like a true gentleman, while I was talking to him a sqaud car pulled up, I guess the store owner decided to call anyway. No problem everything checks out, I offer my ID's as by law I have to in my state, while carrying. The officer, was going to have a towing company dispatched, to get him into his vehicle, I told the officer that I had AAA and would be more than happy to call them and remain on the scene until they arrived. 20 minutes later the vehicle was unlocked, no charge to him.

My AAA picked up the tab, I don't think this guy will forget the guy with the concealed firearm, that looked past his appearance and stopped to help him out. Sorry a long winded story, but just goes to show you, looks are deceiving.:smile:

split into paras to aid readability - Chris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
291 Posts
Trust Nobody, but your close relatives and friends.

Jungle Work
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,011 Posts
Gunthorp, I like the example of the movie COLLATERAL. Cruise's professional hitter is a guy who goes after his target for money but won't hesitate to off ANYBODY who gets in his way...even the innocent cabdriver he forces to help him in his mission. He kills cops, he kills punks, he kills bodyguards....and of course he kills his intended targets. Yet he is educated, well spoken...even SOFT spoken.... Yes...a perfect example.....
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
19,005 Posts
Intresting thoughts. I try not to make eye contact w/ those I am assessing / observing. 2 days ago, I did make eye contact w/ a customer who was dressed dirty and rough looking. he was actually shopping, but I noticed his heightened awareness. We made eye contact a few times while I was in the area, pretending to shop.
I would guess he was
1. ex con
2. UC narc agent
3. CCW holder.
I would be aware of anyone w/ heightened awareness, personally. Funny thing is some of the CCW holders do not look anything like you would guess. I once met 1 buying a pistol in the gun shop. He talked and dressed like Tommy Chong. "Heyyyy dude, let me see that shiny gun , man". :hand5:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
93 Posts
Jungle Work said:
Trust Nobody, but your close relatives and friends.

Jungle Work
Close friends, maybe, and only a small cut of the relatives!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,314 Posts
The nice guy

Others have hit around the few points I was thinking of, such as:
1. Project strength unless you decide that you must look weak (eye contact to ward off BG intentions unless you want to be the unassuming sheep to gain tactical advantage).
2. Only trust friends and family.

I'll go one step further. I reserve the highest degree of suspicion to "gangs" and really nice people. The "friendlies" are usually OK, but the ones that try to create an artificial relationship, or stand too close, etc., really raise the hair on the back of my neck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
248 Posts
I try not to judge by appearence, but by their actions. I've known some very pretty "nice" looking girls that were pure evil and would come after you with a pair of garden shears if the mood struck them.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
25,483 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Oh yes - some good comments, thx - easily showing - ''things are not always as they seem".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
810 Posts
HighVelocity said:
I try not to judge by appearence, but by their actions. I've known some very pretty "nice" looking girls that were pure evil and would come after you with a pair of garden shears if the mood struck them.
That is sure the truth.
I'm trying to think of people I really trust and I come up with my wife and - maybe - one other person. And definitely not relatives. I have several that I wouldn't turn my back on for a moment.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,586 Posts
Good post P95.
As a leo,I try to treat everbody the same.
But do I trust them to be a good guy?
Not on my life................
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,355 Posts
I guess I will trust somebody as much as they are far away, and I can see their hands. You have to be ready to nutralize everybody you meet. If I thought lightning was going to hit me today, I wouldn't have put on my tinfoil beanie.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,838 Posts
from 'Rules of Combat'....

21. Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

22. Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.


As for avioding eye contact....I don't aviod it. You can tell a lot by a person's eyes. I watch the eyes & hands, they are the things that a BG is going to use.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
742 Posts
P95Carry said:
Not really a new subject but one which I think is worthy of consideration.

I am well aware that the best con-man - is the guy who seems so darned ''normal'' we could be forgiven for being taken in!! Smart, intelligent - almost the ''nice guy next door''.

I wonder tho if we project this to the occasional armed BG then we might get caught out. Probably most bad guys are crude, semi-dumb or totally dumb but the odds could be that here and there is the guy who is (appears) so OK and normal, we'd hardly give him a second glance. If we were to be confronted by such, I wonder how much we might be thrown off guard!

There is naturally a lot to be said for being in a relaxed con' yellow - necessary if we carry in particular but - in the same way as we perceive BG's seeing certain types as potential victims, might we also all but ignore until rather late - the apparently ''nice guy'' BG!!?

Bottom line is what I often preach - ''expect the unexpected''. "Never assume".

Just musing - something I do quite a lot :smilez:
That is what Jeff Cooper has said for a long time, and what he wrote in the little red book--'Principles of Self Defense' first published in 1989.

Our current county populations is about 35 to 40K. If we figure 6K males over 18, that means there are 60 +- of these people in the area. No way one can go to and fro and round about without at some time running into one of these people.

Stay awake.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
23,590 Posts
ExSoldier said:
Chris, I think you're talking about the scariest critter of all: The true and natural predator. A sociopath who can still function, at least on the surface, and interact in society without folks tumbling to his true identity. .....

I also think that these "creatures" see themselves as being KING of their environment, even if they hold a fairly lower level job or position in society. They probably hold a "personna" or "alter ego" in check until the hunger grows out of control and then they strike. But even in the strike they see ALL of society as placid sheep and they themselves as the maurading wolf. I don't think it is even a remote possibility that the sheepdogs rest among the flock and that is to our advantage. These creatures of incarnate evil probably see the police and all agents of society as pitiful examples of resistance to their "rule." These types of predators are rarely captured...usually because they are very careful in the stalk and the kill. I think it's possible that they are killed more often than they're caught and when that happens the nature of their predatory activities does NOT come out. What do you think?

Ex:
You write too well! Chills up my back! You just described Dennis Rader, Mr. Blind, Torture & Kill ("BTK") who operated in Wichita Kansas for 15 plus years until his recent capture. We lived in Wichita shortly after his reign of terror had silently ended. The city was on edge. We lived there the next twelve years, hearing "BTK" stories and lore.

Fast forward 25 years or so - BTK - anxious to regain to notoriety from his earlier exploits - dropped a new clue to the police. Caught - he was a small town functionary,a bureaucrat, a control fanatic who delighted in the small, inexplicable control his office offered over its residents. Citations for grass too long (personally measured by him), dogs sent to animal control and put to sleep because he disliked the owner....the list is long!

You nailed it.......
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,424 Posts
HighVelocity said:
I try not to judge by appearence, but by their actions. I've known some very pretty "nice" looking girls that were pure evil and would come after you with a pair of garden shears if the mood struck them.

Hey ! I was married to one of them :biggrin:
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
Top